Diminished Capacity

[christianm77]

Comparison of standard G7b9 chord scale choices, going bright to dark:

G Ab B C D E F G - G harmonic major
G Ab Bb B C D Eb F G - G harmonic/natural minor or Reg minor
G Ab Bb B C# D E F -H/W diminished
G Ab Bb B Db Eb F - Altered

Notice there's not much difference between the bottom three. Also check out the H W H diminished tetrachords I've highlighted in bold. Anyone who has spent any time looking at bop lines can attest that this particular melodic structure comes up extremely frequently, and often in that exact position (1 b2 b3 3 on the V7 chord, 5 b6 b7 7 in the key.)

The W/H dim scale is two such tetrachords a tritone apart.

Identifying notes (from standard minor)
Altered - b5
H/W Dim - b5, 13

Also the altered scale has aspects of brightness and darkness

Lydian Tetrachord - brightest - W W W - 1 2 3 #4
H/W Dim Tetrachord - darkest - H W H - 1 b2 b3 3

Whole Tone Scale - Two Lydian Tetrachords a tritone apart - brightest dominant sound
1 2 3 #4 #5 #6/b7

Diminished - Two H/W Dim Tetrachords a tritone apart - pretty dark - is the Altered darker or brighter?
1 b2 b3 3 #4 5 6 b7

The Altered and 'Reg Minor' scales are hybrids in this understanding

Reg Minor = Dim H/W + Minor (W H W) on 4 - has a bit of that dim tinge, but also a diatonic sounding bit.
Altered = Dim H/W + Whole Tone on b5 - combines dim and whole tone qualities, leading to the alternative name 'diminished whole tone scale'

This may help with hearing the various options, if you sing the tetrachords.

[Tomcat]

Like some of you above, I love the sound of this scale and I still don't have it enough grounded in my ears/fingers.

One teacher told me - dim chord is a gate to modulations in harmony. I think dim scale is a gate to chromaticism in soloing.

[dasein]

Diminished scales are also useful for dom7 chords with unusual resolutions.

Take A7 to Cm7 at the beginning of Stella by Starlight. A half/whole diminished acts like Bb diminished, a passing dim chord to Cm7.

[christianm77]

Diminished scales are also useful for dom7 chords with unusual resolutions.

Take A7 to Cm7 at the beginning of Stella by Starlight. A half/whole diminished acts like Bb diminished, a passing dim chord to Cm7.

Original chord was a o7, so there you go.




Peter Bernstein describes it as a bIIIo7 (Dbo7) going to II- V7 (Cm7 F7).

[Alter]

Besides the patterns that come with the symmetry of the diminished scale, and the challenge of working with an 8 note scale as opposed to 7 note ones, an interesting thing to work with are the dominant chords that are contained in the diminished scale. There are four of them.

For example a G half whole diminished scale has G7, Bb7, Db7 and E7 chords in it (4 dominant-7 chords moving up 3 frets apart). So a progression like G7 going to say Cmaj7 could become Bb7 to Cmaj7, Db7 to Cmaj7, or E7 to Cmaj7. Or any combination. Once you add the related IIs on the V7 chords you have a lot af harmonic material to work with and use as improvisational vehicle. Its a different approach to multitonic improvisation and alternate II-Vs study, where you really learn to see and resolve 4 dominant areas where only one originally existed.

Pat Martino does some great stuff at his videotapes with all this. He derives the new chords from the diminished scale, and then plays his lines over them, thus using scales OTHER than the diminished for improv, but on chords coming FROM the diminished scale, resulting in dazzling out playing.