Tips for soloing over Oleo?...

[DS71]

Been trying to solo over Oleo and getting my a$% handed to me. I think it's intimidating me a bit and I'm approaching it wrong. the B section is fine but the A section...........I'm playing chord to chord but, but is there another/better way?.......
thanks!

[docbop]

It's rhythm changes and there are a zillion articles, exercises, and etudes on playing rhythm changes if you google it. Also don't limit yourself to guitar articles check horn players articles too. Plus work on it slow what you learn working on rhythm changes will be of values to many tunes you'll play in the future.

[jasaco]

BTW, we have a current study group working on soloing over rhythm changes. It's here: Frank Vignola Rhythm Changes

[TOMMO]

Both of the above plus our Matt Warnock has a complete guide to playing rhythm changes:

Introduction To Rhythm Changes For Jazz Guitar (Chords & Soloing)

[Rob MacKillop]

The Major Blues scale with some chromatic moments can work wonders on Rhythm Changes.

[Hatim]

Here is a video Jens Larsen.

At 3.50 he explains how he plays the A section
much simpler.

Hans

[MarkRhodes]

Frank Vignola made a short video for our study group in which he shows some of his go-to voicings for comping rhythm changes. In it, he says he thinks of the A section as either I chord or a back-and-forth between I and V.

If you care to watch, it is post #73 in this thread:
Frank Vignola Rhythm Changes

[dingusmingus]

One more resource:
Mike's Master classes is a good website, with lots of great content. They have a free download of a 1-hour class on rhythm changes from a teacher named Jamie taylor. I got some good ideas from it.
Jazz Guitar Classes | Mike's Master Classes
Look for the button or banner about a free class.

(Note that the website has been around a while, and is a little less slick than some sites production-wise. Still, great content.)

[DS71]

Thanks for all the help, I'll look over all this!

[pcsanwald]

Frank V's advice sounds spot on, unsurprisingly. I think the biggest mistake you can make on rhythm changes is attempting to outline every chord. A lot of people essentially play Bb6 the first 4 bars, and Bb7 - Eb - Bb the last 4.

I think a great place to start is Lester Young's solo on "Lester Leaps In". His phrasing is incredible, so really check it out: sounds completely logical and natural, yet is also totally unpredictable. His note choices are relatively straightforward.

From there, move on to "Seven Come Eleven" and check out Charlie Christian's solo, especially how he rips through the bridge! He plays shorter, simpler lines on the A sections.

After that, move on to Getz on "Wee" and check out Kevin Sun's great post. Getz is coming out of Lester and plays a great solo, listen to it slowed down(!).

From there, check out Fats Navarro on "Wail". Fats is incredibly melodic! There is some super catchy stuff in here, mixed in with some complex lines.

Monk's quartets playing rhythm-a-ning are also great for an alternative approach.

Then, check out Bird. I think all of the above solos are a better entree into the art of playing rhythm changes than starting directly with Bird, Diz, Stitt, Rollins and others which for me is like graduate school in terms of phrasing.

Mistakes I have personally made that have resulted in me playing rhythm changes badly:

- Focusing too much on "making the changes" and not enough on interesting phrasing

- Not creating interesting contrasts between the A sections and the bridge

- Ignoring the melody when it comes time to solo instead of using it creatively

- Failing to adapt concepts/lines from the great soloists to what sounds good and lays well on my instrument. I've transcribed, sung, and learned a TON of Bird solos on guitar. Many of them just don't lay that well and there are some simple alterations you can make to make them sound better on the guitar. I didn't do this and focused on playing them verbatim, which doesn't serve the music. The best interpreters of swing/bebop on the guitar all did this: Charlie Christian, Joe Pass, and Wes all use language that works well and lays beautifully on the instrument while still retaining the essential qualities of bebop.

[christianm77]

First of all - I heartily recommend all of the Rhythm Changes videos by Aimee Nolte.

Secondly, my own recommendations:

The biggest trap people fall into with Rhythm tunes is trying to play all the changes. Basically if we strip away all the passing chords, rhythm changes is essentially this:

A1
Bb | Cm F7 | Bb | Cm F7 |
Fm7 Bb7 | Eb7 | Bb | Cm F7 |
A2
Bb | Cm F7 | Bb | Cm F7 |
Fm7 Bb7 | Eb7 | Cm F7 | Bb |
B
D7 | % | G7 | % |
C7 | % | F7 | % |
A3
Bb | Cm F7 | Bb | Cm F7 |
Fm7 Bb7 | Eb7 | Bb | Cm F7 |

Notice the first, second and third time bars on the A - this gets missed even by some3 experienced players.

Now I've put ii-V's in there as many people are happy with ii-V's. Notice that we are going out of phase if you like - we start on I and the ii-V-I starts on bar II.

However, if I am breaking it down for my own benefit, things are even simpler. It's basically three chords.

Bb | F7 | Bb | F7 |
Bb7 | Eb7 | Bb | F7 |

Not so hard now, huh?

If you are playing swing you can basically use the Bb chord as the basis, using major and minor blues lines to taste. Listen to Lester Young for instance.

The skill with Rhythm tunes as when playing in a bop style, as for all tunes, is to create harmonic motion within the line. Contrary to popular belief this line doesn't have to have that much to do with the original changes. In the case of Rhythm tunes any turnaround movement in Bb will do. For instance, I might be spelling out these changes:

Dm Dbm | Cm Amaj7 | Bb | Eb Ebm |
Bb | Ebm | Dm Dbm | Cm F7 |

Or just:

Bb | Eb | Dm | Cm |
Bb7 | Eb7 | Bb | % |

Or even

Cm7 | F7 | Cm7 | F7 |
Fm7 Em7 | Ebm7 | Dm7 | Cm7 |

Or anything that pops into my head really. You have to start looking into what players you like do on this progression. Luckily there's a wealth of material to check out.

[TOMMO]

Thanks, pcsanwald and christianm - especially for encouraging me to do what I have done so far when just "blowing" through RCs: playing "blues" lines through them - not as fancy as all the stuff FV has written out but it works fine!

[mr. beaumont]

Also, try practicing the simplified changes at ballad tempo. Concentrate on making interesting lines, and fight the urge to "chase change."

Superimpose stuff too. You can come up with really interesting stuff stating with maj/dom/blues in the "I" area (lets say Bb) and trying B major related lines over the V's...great pull and tug.

[pcsanwald]

great tips. The only thing I'd say is that Barry Harris used to always emphasize the G7/Bdim in bar 3. He was always adamant about not thinking too much about any ii chord, just I to V, but he always pointed out that he (and bud powell) played the VI7 in bars 3, 11, etc.

[PMB]

great tips. The only thing I'd say is that Barry Harris used to always emphasize the G7/Bdim in bar 3. He was always adamant about not thinking too much about any ii chord, just I to V, but he always pointed out that he (and bud powell) played the VI7 in bars 3, 11, etc.

Interesting. Barry Harris laments that no one plays b3 diminished any more yet the Dbo7 in the second half of bar 3 in Gershwin's original I Got Rhythm provides a perfect opportunity.

[pcsanwald]

yeah, when I was going regularly to his tuesday night classes at the Y, he would often give examples using G7, Bdim, or Dbdim. but, the thing I remember him being adamant about is not using these in the first bar of the A. He insisted it was a color that was for the second time through the Bb cycle.

[supermaxx]

Ok - so it sounds like you're a beginner when it comes to jazz harmony and language. All the posts in this thread are trying to simplify the chords but I'm going to take it even further and hopefully offer a way to interpret/practice those changes that provide real, practical harmonic language. Here is what you need to know:

The A section of rhythm changes (as some have alluded to) is is very simple if you remove all the extra chords. It's |I |ii V| repeated 4 times. Notice how I'm ignoring the second half and you'll see why in a moment.

I can simplify this even more to |I |ii | because ii and V are the same. There's a lot you can do with this but I'm even going to go one step further.

Here are the notes in Cm7 - C, Eb, G, Bb. Leave off the C and you get Eb, G, Bb or in other words an Eb triad, the IV chord. This is an A section in rhythm changes:

|I |IV |I |IV |I |IV |I |IV | I even get the IV chord in measure 6 as it should be.


I'm assuming you're more familiar with blues and blues guitar ideas as that's how most of us start out. Now what does this look like? Kind of like a blues, I's and IV's. And what do we play on the I chord? Major pentatonic, and the IV chord? minor pentatonic/blues scale.

So we're basically just alternating Bb major pent. for a measure then Bb minor pent. for a measure.

Set up your metronome on 2 and 4 and play over this. Can you hear the rhythm changes harmony over this? Now more on to some triads or arpeggios. Bb and Eb, then Bb and Cm, then Bbmaj7 and Cm7.

Once you hear this and have some facility on the guitar you can start to explore some of the expanded changes and what they mean. For whatever reason this thread inspired me to write this explanation out. It's still a little esoteric and I'd love to record some examples for you if you're interested in how this actually sounds.

[ragman1]

I don't know how you lot do Rhythm Changes (correctly, I suspect!) but I do them like this. I don't really do bebop so it's sort of swing. I make up for it by putting in various substitutions, as below.

Also, as has already been suggested, I simplify the chords, for soloing purposes, down to pretty basic stuff.
Here are three versions:

1) Bb - F7 - Bb - F7
Bb/Bb7 - Eb/Ebm - Bb/F7 - Bb

D7 -% - G7 - %
C7 - % - F7 - F+


2) Bb - Cm(6) - Bb - Cm(6)
Bb/Bb7 - Eb/Ebm - Bb/F7 - Bb

Am(6) - % - Dm(6)
Gm(6) - % - F7 - F+


3) Bb - F7 - Bb - F7
Bb/Bb7 - Eb/Ebm - Bb/F7 - Bb

Am(6) - % - G alt - %
Gm(6) - % - F7 - F alt

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

[vsaumarez]

The best way of dealing with rhythm changes is to avoid playing tunes with them. Actually, that's not as hard as it sounds, but one day it will bite you in the posterior. Here's my suggestion: All of the above suggestions, so look at chord progressions (break them down if necessary), key centres and throw in a bit of blues when you've run out of ideas.