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why does this martino lick work over all these chords (and it does)
The lick in its simplest form
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--7-8-7-6-5---------------------------------
-------------7-6-4--------------------------
--------------------7-6-5-7-5-4-3-2---------
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The chords as vamped static chords (not a progression)
A7 Em7 Gmj7#11 Cmj7#11 f#7alt Eb7alt E7#9
================================================== =
Does anyone have any more of these simple but effective bebop style usable licks for different situations .....please
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08-16-2009 04:57 PM
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My first answer.. Without even playing the lick or those chords, is that it will resolve strongly. Any line can sound good if it resolves well.
The last note is an E, in this lick.
A7 - ending on the 5th
Em7 - ending on the Root.
Gmaj7#11 - ending on the 6 (can sound good)
Cmaj7#11 - ending on the 3rd
F#7alt - ending on the b7
Eb7alt - ending on the b9 (nice choice for an alt chord but I would be more interested in the following chord... I would have to play that one to see)
E7#9 - ending on the Root.
So each of those chords would obviously give a different feel, but Martino tends to play his signature lines rather fast and given the right phrasing, they can sound good over anything. I hold fast that Its more about conviction phrasing and resolution than the notes themselves, although note choice is still important.
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thats awsome ......i like licks like this that work in lots of stuations, I usually add my own twists and phrases but its good to have referece points, pats creative force is ok but baffles me with math, shame tho .....got any good ones?
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"Conviction phrasing." What an interesting way to put that. I think that definitely helps explain why "outside" playing is often illusive at first, but then as one's phrasing and musical knowledge improves (ability to resolve deliberately) it begins to get alot easier to slip outside convincingly.
Originally Posted by joe pass jr
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ah, I mean't to say ' conviction & phrasing '.. All I mean is that if your going to go 'outside' do it with confidence and make sure when you come back 'in' that you resolve strongly to a good chordal tone or something a bit cliche... Just so the listeners know that you meant to go outside and it wasn't just luck or randomness.
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Sorry MarkyT I don't really think about melodic ideas in the sense of how many chord progressions they work over. I tend to solo in response to the tune and not the chords per se. I think if you start to build a vocabulary of ideas for various progressions.. II-V, ii-Vb9, VI-II-V-I, I-IV-V ect.. That many ideas translate from one progression to another. Sometimes It only requires a small alteration on that melodic idea..
For example. I tend to ignore II-V and play them as ii-Vb9. This makes plain old II-V's a bit more interesting because your forced to use that b5 over a m7 and the b9 over a normal Dominant chord. It's an easy way to accustom your ears to more dissonant sounds and learn to use them well.
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You just have to alter some things over any progression.
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Holy crap..... you expect us to go thru 111 pages of licks?!? Originally Posted by franco6719
I am waaaaaay to lazy for that!
(and who ever had the time to write those out?!? I am not sure if I should admire or pitty the person....)
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Originally Posted by Little Jay
It's overwhelming I tell you. OVERWHELMING!!
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Its not as bad as it first appears. Looks like they took 1 lick and transposed across 12 keys. As guitarists, we just need to learn it once, then slide the ol' hand down the fret board and repeat the pattern elsewhere on the next for the other 11 keys (horn players and keyboard players are not as fortunate here).
As for writing it out, with a good transcription software (e.g. Sibelius) you can write out a lick in one key and in about 30 seconds transcribe it into the other keys.
Still, it is an impressive effort - one that I will examine in further detail. Many thanks to whoever created it!
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Yep, thanks for that one. Yet another book for me to have and never have time to read
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Yeah, I know all about this one. Basically, I later discovered that the author took almost all (possibly all) of the lines from a book by the late David Baker and copied them out in 12 keys. It isn't as bad as it looks, but most of Coltrane's II-V licks are extremely angular, unusual, or technically challenging for the guitar, IMO.
Anyway, it is public domain and hopefully can be of some use.
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pats creative force is ok but baffles me with math,
It's not that complicated really. Basically, you can separate the book into parts about chords and a part about the concept of minorization. The point is that you can take any of those "lines" or "activities" and memorize them in 12 keys. If you do that, you have 12 extended scales to play over II-V in any key. Then you can do the same with the rest of the "activities". The book "Linear Expressions" is clearer on this.
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"As for writing it out, with a good transcription software (e.g. Sibelius) you can write out a lick in one key and in about 30 seconds transcribe it into the other keys."
Oh, that's good. I think I will check into this myself.
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I've just passed through this thread, shame on me, but googling on "pat martino boring"
But regardless my original intention, the part of original question why this works. Maybe I missed it, but no one mentions in the analysis that definitely worth to mention:
The most basic line rule, that the notes on the beat takes all, that's the skeleton, all the non beat notes are the bebop stuff, if you prefer: passing tones or literally "stuffing", sometimes (rarely) color tones.
If you take those notes: F#, E, C# A G (F) you got the standard A13, so no wonder why is this works on that, almost completely outlines a not altered A7. Which means it also outlines the altered tritone subst: Eb7alt
The Em7 is just the II in II V I where A7 is the dominant, so also the most usual stuff to pre-project (or (superimposing) the upcoming tension there. Talking about E7, it's not so cool imho, but making tension and dissonance is also a working thing on dominants.
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Now back to the boring thing. I think this is not a good idea to look licks like this, because the passport to be boring is play this lick more than three times within one solo, or even within one record... so it give no benefit that it can be used on many chords.
PS: I can't play guitar. Really. It's not about that "I am so cool player". But I like to listen music, and do that a lot...
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No, Pat has them all! Originally Posted by markyT
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...all boring you mean?... :-) Originally Posted by M-ster
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