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Recently while watching a performance by Wes, I saw a version of Four on Six where Ronnie Scott introduces Wes and the song. He says something along the lines of how the song features a 6/8 rhythm against a normal 4/4 feel, which is why Wes titled it so.
Now I'm a very experienced musician but I can't find any part of this song that resembles anything about 6/8. Not the melody, nothing with the groove, nothing with the form, etc. Can anybody else?
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09-24-2011 07:41 PM
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4 fingers on 6 strings
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Funny, but that's not it. Also, Wes was an advocate of never using his pinky to play lines.
Originally Posted by fep
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Can you point out where wes advocated that? Because I've watched plenty of videos of wes, and he does use his pinky occasionally...and he uses it a lot when playing octaves.
I always thought the title referred to the intro, where the guitar(6) plays a bass line (4)
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I said that he never uses his pinky to play lines, meaning single lines in his solos. He uses it to play octaves and block chords, but he never, ever uses it to play single lines. Just watch any video. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Last edited by bluewaterpig; 09-24-2011 at 08:53 PM.
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I dunno, I've seen it happen. Check out the "round midnight" vid on youtube...not the best quality, but I swear I see a little pinky action.
But whether he did or not, I was most interested that you said he "advocated" not using the pinky. I was hoping you could point out an interview. Wes was of course highly influenced by charlie christian, who reportedly didn't use his pinky either. Lots of gypsy jazzers will play with only two fingers like django, say it gets them closer to the 'feel' of the original...I'm wondering if wes felt similar about channeling charlie or something.
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He doesn't use his pinky to play any of the single notes in Round Midnite, just for octaves and block chords.
Most of the greats tend to stay away from using the pinky, though some definitely use it. Again, this is purely only for single note lines. Some chords and octaves require it.Last edited by bluewaterpig; 09-24-2011 at 09:12 PM.
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facepalm Originally Posted by bluewaterpig
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What does that mean? Originally Posted by JakeAcci
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Originally Posted by bluewaterpig
I agree and for the person who asked: Originally Posted by JakeAcci
A facepalm is the physical gesture of lowering one's face into one's hand, usually partially concealing the face. The gesture is found in many cultures as a display of exasperation. It has also been found in chimpanzees and other animals, suggesting that the action is as natural as a sigh or cough.
The facepalm was popularized as an Internet meme based on an image of Star Trek Captain Jean-Luc Picard performing the gesture in the episode "Déjà Q".[1] In Internet discussions, the term is used as an expression of embarrassment, frustration, disbelief, disgust, shame or general woe. It often expresses mockery or disbelief of perceived idiocy. The facepalm is often expressed using an image. Another action as to one slapping their face with the palm of their hand .Last edited by Flyin' Brian; 09-24-2011 at 09:59 PM.
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So you're saying I'm stupid for saying that a lot of great guitar players don't often use their pinky...?
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some pinky usage around the 4:00 mark here:
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Whooooa man, way to freak out. I said a lot, not all, and I said often, not all of the time without exception.
It isn't too hard to find a video of a guitar player using their pinky, great work!
Edit: In that Rosenwinkel video, he barely uses his pinky for his single lines. I never knew he did that as well, thanks for bringing it to my attention.Last edited by bluewaterpig; 09-24-2011 at 10:47 PM.
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Actually you said MOST. Now I can't speak for Jake but I wasn't saying you were stupid. Just that you had kind of presented a very unfounded statement as fact. I'd have to disagree with you statement as well. I believe that most of the great guitar players who I have seen in person in fact use their pinky a LOT. Wes is the exception. Originally Posted by bluewaterpig
Here's a few more:
Last edited by Flyin' Brian; 09-24-2011 at 10:56 PM.
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Hey, can we get it back to what "four on six" means? Often wondered myself..
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I would like to know as well. But the haughty brashness has got to go. I do not know many experts in here, but the one's that are here are much more subtle with the conveyance of their ideas and knowledge.
BTW Jake, Nice!
Also great tunes guy's.
Last edited by brwnhornet59; 09-25-2011 at 12:22 PM.
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No emotion here, I just thought that instead of saying "you're wrong" and using words which could be debated, it was easier to simply show via video that most of the established jazz guitarists do use the pinky.
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Exactly. It's much easier to show than to tell. Originally Posted by JakeAcci
I got nothing from Google except tons of tabs and charts for it. I have read several times that it was just a head that Wes wrote that's based on the changes of Summertime. One thing that struck me as a possibility was that the bass player came up with the figure on 4 strings that ultimately became the head of the song played on 6 strings. Originally Posted by princeplanet
Last edited by Flyin' Brian; 09-25-2011 at 09:41 AM.
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Yes I've also heard at least online from a few people that's it thought to be 4 (bass) on 6 (guitar)
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4 fingers on 6 strings is not something I made up. My guitar teacher told me that. And he's been playing professionally for 40 years and is quite the historian. Whether it's true or not, I think it's more likely true than not as he has always been very reliable. Next time I see him I'll ask him where he got that info. Originally Posted by bluewaterpig
The pinky bit is irrelevant. He plays octaves and chords on that song so he obviously uses his pinky on that song.
How do you know that, as you said, "but that's not it"?
Please provide your source.Last edited by fep; 09-25-2011 at 12:23 PM.
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Who gives a rat's about his pinky? As if that was going to reveal the big secret into WG's genius. He could have played standing on his head if he wanted to. Listen to him laughing his ass off while playing "Impressions."
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You're all wrong - it's so obvious! The song title refers to the exclusive use of the 4th (pinky) finger on all 6 strings. The original title was in fact, "4 on 6 on 21," additionally referencing the fact that Wes' L5 had 21 frets, but it was considered unwieldy and subsequently shortened. If you guys don't hear from me again for a while, it's because I'll be scouring the Web looking for a video to support my irrefutable claim!
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heh heh heh! Good one Tom! Originally Posted by Tom Karol
I don't know the background of the title 4 on 6 and I don't know 'bout the pinky, but 4 on 6 by Wes from "The Incredible Jazz Guitar" might very well be my desert-island jazz-tune.... Love it!!
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I don't know if this comment was at all directed at me, Tom, but there was no scouring going on. I simply went to youtube and picked more or less the first video of the first jazz guitarists that came to mind. It took about 2 minutes. I thought the comment that great jazz guitarists don't use their pinky to be so silly and misleading that simple proof was needed to end the discussion. Originally Posted by Tom Karol
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this is indeed correct; the great jazz guitar teacher jody fisher told me this as well. Originally Posted by fep
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