Song for My Father - F Dorian or Aeolian?

**MartinPiana** · 09-24-2010, 03:56 PM

I've been playing over the Fm on this in Dorian, and lately focusing on landing on the "D" (6th). But there are no "D"s over this chord in the melody - and in fact there's a Db in the first triplets.

Anybody here use Aeolian (b6) over the Fm, either exclusively or occasionally? To my ear it works, but is blander.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-24-2010, 04:22 PM

Over the tonic of a minor key, I <3 melodic minor, or whatever you call it: being able to use both the minor and major sixth and minor and major seventh. Mix it up.

**JohnW400** · 09-24-2010, 04:25 PM

Both.

Depends what you hear and when. You could use any minor scale you like.

Try an F mi blues scale as well. You could also use the F Hungarian minor (or whatever it's called) F G Ab B C Db E. Gives it a nice Flamenco sound

To me one of the best things about a minor chord is that 11 of the 12 notes fit really well

**mr. beaumont** · 09-24-2010, 05:04 PM

transcribe a little Joe Henderson---plenty of good old minor pentatonic in there!

joaopaz · 10-27-2010, 06:47 AM

Hi!

I'm currently working on this tune and I'm using both aeolian and dorian. one idea would be to play the same line in both modes and benefit from the contrast

there may not be a D nat there - but it will be if you play it

regards,
joao

**Reg** · 10-27-2010, 10:48 AM

Pretty standard start...
F-7..... I-7...... which typically implies Aeolian or VI- from AbMaj.
Eb7.... bVII7.. Mixo. or the V7 chord from Abmaj.
Db7.... bVI7...Lydian b7, typ. sub-V chord
C7...... V7......V7b9,11,b13...standard Modal interchange V chord from Har.Min.
This is just where you would start, and what melody helps imply.
As mentioned above both H. Silver and Joe H. both used blue or bop tensions as almost chord tones, which gives an entire different set of harmonic chords to pull from. When you play standards like "Song for my father", the entire tune is almost implied ... you can hardly go wrong. The tune almost functions likes a giant Pedal... Your ears always have the tune going on, so you have a ton of freedom to express yourself. Best Reg

**wolflen** · 10-27-2010, 11:57 AM

reg...

song for my father, for me, has the same kind of open feel like ben tuckers "coming home" ... very minor based that says...ok...let the turbo kick in...
as you state...the song is always going on in your ear..it is like the entire progression is "one chord"

play well

wolf

**Reg** · 10-27-2010, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by wolflen

reg...

song for my father, for me, has the same kind of open feel like ben tuckers "coming home" ... very minor based that says...ok...let the turbo kick in...
as you state...the song is always going on in your ear..it is like the entire progression is "one chord"

play well

wolf

Hey wolf... I like your style... and yea pretty much all tunes sound like one chord to me.... well not all tunes... I had to play through some Joe Locke tunes at a gig last week, one was called "Alpha Punk", I don't recall the names of the rest, turbos on with unique time sigs... anyway I try and give analysis as though the user is seeing the tune for the first time and use Jazz 101 approach, most don't understand what jazz analysis is. Some have a little traditional music theory... Best Reg

**Hiko Mune** · 10-28-2010, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by MartinPiana

I've been playing over the Fm on this in Dorian, and lately focusing on landing on the "D" (6th). But there are no "D"s over this chord in the melody - and in fact there's a Db in the first triplets.

Anybody here use Aeolian (b6) over the Fm, either exclusively or occasionally? To my ear it works, but is blander.

Sorry,I do not know what you consider.You maybe think about the song's mode too much. Ⅱ is a minor chord,but that is not mean "Dorian",right?
In the other hand,Dorian is Ⅱ scan,but that is not mean every minor chords in your song are Ⅱ,right?All the beginning are Ⅱ chord?Negative！
You could start from Ⅵ ,ⅣⅡⅤ........Don't worry,just go ahead!

**Hiko Mune** · 10-28-2010, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by MartinPiana

I've been playing over the Fm on this in Dorian, and lately focusing on landing on the "D" (6th). But there are no "D"s over this chord in the melody - and in fact there's a Db in the first triplets.

Anybody here use Aeolian (b6) over the Fm, either exclusively or occasionally? To my ear it works, but is blander.

Sorry,I do not know what you consider.You maybe think about the song's mode too much. Ⅱ is a minor chord,but that is not mean "Dorian",right?
In the other hand,Dorian is Ⅱ scan,but that is not mean every minor chords in your song are Ⅱ,right?All the beginning are Ⅱ chord?Negative！
You could start from Ⅵ ,ⅣⅡⅤ........Don't worry,just go ahead!

**franco6719** · 10-29-2010, 05:42 AM

I agree with the idea of dorian sound here, for my ears, but it is extremely bluesy right from the melody. So try to incorporate that sound. I also like the D natural.

**Hiko Mune** · 10-30-2010, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by franco6719

I agree with the idea of dorian sound here, for my ears, but it is extremely bluesy right from the melody. So try to incorporate that sound. I also like the D natural.

Oh yes,my friend.Every time your feeling is good.Every melodies you play are correct I think,unless you can't control them.Usually,some simple idea is better.

You have only made it different on backing or chord progression.Melody,keep it simple.Wish your improv better!

**franco6719** · 10-31-2010, 02:12 AM

"Wish your improv better!"

I don't know whether to even reply to something like this. But what the heck?
Hiko, I'm aware that my improv is far from perfect, but I will continue to work extremely hard to improve it. I doubt I would ever satisfy everyone. I wish YOUR improv were better, too, but unfortunately, I can't really comment on yours because I don't see any posts or links where I can go to hear some of it. At least I put some of mine OUT THERE in public for all to hear.

**Hiko Mune** · 10-31-2010, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by franco6719

"Wish your improv better!"

I don't know whether to even reply to something like this. But what the heck?
Hiko, I'm aware that my improv is far from perfect, but I will continue to work extremely hard to improve it. I doubt I would ever satisfy everyone. I wish YOUR improv were better, too, but unfortunately, I can't really comment on yours because I don't see any posts or links where I can go to hear some of it. At least I put some of mine OUT THERE in public for all to hear.

Thank you

No matter what the idea you are,try to do it!Improv is various,don't doubt any thing that you hear.To play what you can feel.

**franco6719** · 10-31-2010, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Hiko Mune

Thank you

No matter what the idea you are,try to do it!Improv is various,don't doubt any thing that you hear.To play what you can feel.

Oh, it seems I really was misunderstanding you! I'm sorry for responding aggressively...I think.

Anyway, I agree in that case. Thanks for the comment.

**Hiko Mune** · 11-01-2010, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by franco6719

Oh, it seems I really was misunderstanding you! I'm sorry for responding aggressively...I think.

Anyway, I agree in that case. Thanks for the comment.

haha,you're welcome.I can understand yours,and I don't think you are aggressive,In fact it is really correct what you say.Most of jazz guitar solo is very brilliant such as Pat Metheny, Joe Pass etc.However,when I heard some early bebop works,I also feel some simple stuffs with a complexer backing(walking bass line,altered chord tension).For vocal,simple melody is easier to sing,and easier to remember.
Jazz improv gives us too much surprise.First time I heard a work of Pat, <The Roots Of Coincidence>,I can't sure that is jazz music.So,we are progressing,always.Keep on going ahead,always.
Right?