Enough with comparing music to a spoken language...

[emanresu]

"emotional meaning." - this is the emptiest value ever.
You may google it or AI it, this gives you nothing.

[pamosmusic]

I spent hours today "discussing" this matter with AI.

Ah. Well that explains a lot.

[emanresu]

Ah. Well that explains a lot.

My aim was to replace "musical meaning" to something better.
That didn't happen.

[pamosmusic]

Agree

Disagree.

Music — A system of communication where sound (symbols) correlates directly with emotional reality (the medium). Every variation in sound produces a precise corresponding shift in emotional meaning.

Math — A system of communication where symbols and numbers correlate directly with quantitative relationships in reality (the medium). Every variation in symbol produces a precise corresponding shift in quantitative meaning.

Alphabetical Language — A system of communication where symbols and sounds correlate with descriptions of reality. The mapping is precise but indirect — it describes the medium rather than expressing it directly.

Control — Dog Bark — A signal but not a language. There is no systematic range of symbols that correlate variations in the bark with precise variations in meaning. Interpretable but not compositional.

Where did you get this?

[Strat-itis]

^ I hashed it out with Claude the bot.

emanresu: I get what you're saying. You're saying alphabetical language is the true meaning of language because it can accurately and precisely describe anything. You think this disqualifies music because it doesn't do that. That's a valid stance.

I just disagree because I see music as a system of communication where the medium in reality, emotion, is directly correlated with the symbols of sound. And this makes it a language because the correlation is continuous and inherent.

I don't see any reason to argue further, we can agree to disagree. I'll leave you to your thread.

[mr. beaumont]

I've always disliked the "music is language" comparison.

[emanresu]

I've always disliked the "music is language" comparison.

Me too when I was young an rebellious.
But now, when I see a sparky conversation in old bbc sketch, I feel so envious. Why can't we have it.

[emanresu]

^ I hashed it out with Claude the bot.

emanresu: I get what you're saying. You're saying alphabetical language is the true meaning of language because it can accurately and precisely describe anything. You think this disqualifies music because it doesn't do that. That's a valid stance.

Not exactly. I am not saying that. There is the word "means" that I have the issue with.
That word doesn't work in music whatsoever. That's all.
Ok. Have a nice evening or night or day

[Strat-itis]

There is the word "means" that I have the issue with.

I think there is correlation in music between the symbols of sound and the medium of reality, emotion. It's just abstract and not discrete.

[emanresu]

ChatGPT - Musical Message Conveyance

well. i dunno. whatever.

[pamosmusic]

^ I hashed it out with Claude the bot.

That explanation of musical meaning is WILD

[emanresu]

Lets stop with musical "meaning". It scars, it is so wrong

[Strat-itis]

That explanation of musical meaning is WILD

Yep lol. Well I came up with it and he helped me draft it. I do think it's wild. That's why I feel so strongly about music being a language. That direct correlation between the informational syntax - the sound/music, and the medium in reality - the emotion.

[Mick-7]

I spent hours today "discussing" this matter with AI. It avoided the word "meaning" the entire time.
There is no "meaning" in music. Unless somebody says it out loud.

The meaning is in the message and as Marshall McLuhan said, "the medium is the message."

McLuhan uses the term "message" to signify content and character. His commentary on art is relevant: "On the subject of art history, McLuhan interpreted Cubism as announcing clearly that the medium is the message. For him, Cubist art required "instant sensory awareness of the whole" rather than perspective alone. In other words, with Cubism one could not ask what the artwork was about (content), but rather consider it in its entirety."

[emanresu]

Meaning doesn't equal message.

[emanresu]

Cubism suddenly promoted the function of the term "meaning"?

[emanresu]

Unless theres is an Einstein's level of argument that music has a "meaning", we might as well drop it.
It is not too important really

[Mick-7]

Cubism suddenly promoted the function of the term "meaning"?

Well, you'd have to read McLuhan, but he's suggesting that the medium (cubist art in this instance) conveys a message, the meaning of which is subjective, to the person who views it, whereas written language has an objective agreed upon meaning.

[emanresu]

I have stared at art slideshows while practicing impro. There was no message.
I am attacking the word "mean", not you.

edit: I got tickled, amused, baffled without a message or meanings.
edit2: then sometimes i watched the opinion vids about the paintings. just lunacy. I don't know what it is. something crazy.

[wolflen]

Unless theres is an Einstein's level of argument that music has a "meaning", we might as well drop it.
It is not too important really

Hope you enjoyed your "click bate" time here with my friends.

[emanresu]

Hope you enjoyed your "click bate" time here with my friends.

I want to get something real. To grip. That is what I am always after.

[pauln]

Trouble with music emerges when communication theory ends like this: (and upon receiving the signal the message and its meaning are derived, extracted, translated, converted, decoded, decrypted, etc. from the received signal). But music is inherently self revealing - the signal stage IS the actual message and meaning in and of itself.

[emanresu]

Well. This thread has completely derailed sadly.

The original idea was to steal some from books. It is doable.
Nobody even touched the topic. Fine.
I guess it is time to let go.

[James W]

Music is not a language, but many people recognise an analogy between the two.

[Christian Miller]

Music might not be a language but it definitely ain’t physics


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