Voice leading

[AGreatApe]

I've been practicing mapping out how (in circle 5ths standards) the 7th of one chord becomes the 3rd of the next chord, and vice versa. Several YT teachers emphasize making that the basic core of a good line. But why does a line need to be so closely fused? No one thinks the first two melody notes of ATTYA is an inelegant jump (perfect 4th.) I see how in traditional SATB voice leading, all 4 notes have gotta go somewhere all at same time. But with just one voice to worry about, really? Is it mostly a bebop thing?

[James W]

I've been practicing mapping out how (in circle 5ths standards) the 7th of one chord becomes the 3rd of the next chord, and vice versa. Several YT teachers emphasize making that the basic core of a good line. But why does a line need to be so closely fused? No one thinks the first two melody notes of ATTYA is an inelegant jump (perfect 4th.) I see how in traditional SATB voice leading, all 4 notes have gotta go somewhere all at same time. But with just one voice to worry about, really? Is it mostly a bebop thing?

It's a good thing to learn and get into your ears and fingers but I don't think a line needs to be like that. And as for SATB voice leading, that's not really the case, the voices might be rhythmically differentiated and one voice might just stay on the same note while others move which is known as oblique motion.

[Jimmy blue note]

These chords based on a family and inversions can be easily voice led and I like the versions with triads because I can easily add a 4th note to make melodic phrases in 4 part chords and keep the harmony in close movement.
THe little charts on the left will show you what voices go to what notes in the following chord.
These are not only handy in showing the cycles, but once internalized aurally can help you to intuit any harmonic movement as root movement can move freely in all voices, not just in the bass. This is very liberating, but it's a different way of thinking.

[AllanAllen]

Sometimes, I accidentally voicelead as I comp from easy grip to easy grip and it’s very pretty.

Like you say, nobody scoffs at the P4 in ATTYA, but if we only played in P4 it would sound tired. Voice leading is just one of many many tools in your bag.

[Rodney Gene]

Voice leading often happens naturally in writing a melody line, even if you did not recognize that you were doing it. It is also a natural byproduct of ear development and musical maturity. But voice leading intentionally, learning to see it as well as hear it, changes you/advances you as a player and that is where more freedom exists. It's a worthy pursuit, not a law.

[Christian Miller]

I've been practicing mapping out how (in circle 5ths standards) the 7th of one chord becomes the 3rd of the next chord, and vice versa. Several YT teachers emphasize making that the basic core of a good line. But why does a line need to be so closely fused? No one thinks the first two melody notes of ATTYA is an inelegant jump (perfect 4th.) I see how in traditional SATB voice leading, all 4 notes have gotta go somewhere all at same time. But with just one voice to worry about, really? Is it mostly a bebop thing?

If by 'it' you mean voice leading 3rds and 7ths, it's mostly of a Western music thing? Actually bop players tend to be a bit looser

I think part of the issue of teaching people to play changes if you sot of have to teach them the vanilla stuff that's been around for hundreds of years and then the stuff that actually sounds hip.

Voice leading chords in steps is a good skill to develop, don't get me wrong. But not all voice leading works that. I tend to see chords in songs as coming from the interaction of the melody and bass (and middle voices) rather than coming from chords. Nowhere is this more apparent than with ATTYA which is practically a voice leading exercise.

ATTYA is a composition based on what might be the simplest voice leading of a Circle of 5ths progression, which is the melody note on the thirds of each chord.

We see two exceptions to this in ATTYA as a sort of
1) the 3rd is suspended into the next chord as the 7th
2) the 7th is used to prepare the the 3rd by descending step

As Derek Remes puts it (ed. me) in his voice leading compendium

(The canon thing is neat but not really relevant to ATTYA.)

When we are doing the shell voicings thing on guitar, we are playing in three voices. So:

And you can see that connections are stepwise, and all the chords are what we would call 'shell voicings.' you could view the melody of ATTYA as jumping between these two top voices in the way it jumps between the 3rds and 7ths on the Bb-7 Abmaj7 and G7 chords. I mean this is one reason why the thing is so guitaristic, and why I often use it as a starter piece for solo guitar lessons.

Where does that leave us for voice leading the chords under ATTYA? I'd be inclined to keep the middle voices as stepwise as possible. To be honest when I play this on guitar as a solo arrangement I tend to be in three voices. But you could change to a stepwise bass by inverting some of the chords.

A comp on the other hand is not something that generally wants to get in the way, so stepwise voice leading is good.

Not sure if that's any help?

[Christian Miller]

"I Will Survive" is an interesting example of a song that DOESN'T really use the 7-3 voice leading thing around the cycle. It is quite a lot on the 5ths and 8ves.

[AGreatApe]

Not sure if that's any help?

Yes, and I will be studying your attachments, thank you. At the least I should also be more careful with using phrases that I've inferred meanings of from YT tutorials. I remember in a music theory class (no, I havent attended a music school, but) sitting with worksheets having SATB chords, and the goal was to resolve the chords as smoothly as possible while obeying 4 or 5 rules such as "never create a parallel 5th", and "never cross over an adjacent voice." Then 30 years later everyone (YT) is saying "voice leading" in reference to a single voice guitar line, which seemed strange to me. I've always intuitively heard what a jarring melodic jump is, but I'm game to refine it all, and to sound "correct" for a little while anyhow. A tool, not a rule, it appears.

[Christian Miller]

Yes, and I will be studying your attachments, thank you. At the least I should also be more careful with using phrases that I've inferred meanings of from YT tutorials. I remember in a music theory class (no, I havent attended a music school, but) sitting with worksheets having SATB chords, and the goal was to resolve the chords as smoothly as possible while obeying 4 or 5 rules such as "never create a parallel 5th", and "never cross over an adjacent voice." Then 30 years later everyone (YT) is saying "voice leading" in reference to a single voice guitar line, which seemed strange to me. I've always intuitively heard what a jarring melodic jump is, but I'm game to refine it all, and to sound "correct" for a little while anyhow. A tool, not a rule, it appears.

I think jazz players use terminology in a fairly loose way. In this context they probably mean, "the 3rd and 7ths give you great voice leading through the C5 progression that you can use as the basis for an improvised melody line." At least that's the way I'd say it.

There's lots of stuff like that.

[AGreatApe]

.

Thanks for that chart, Jimmy bn! Ive been playing 1573 voices on three string sets for years, but never saw how that would work alternating with 5137 voicing. Good.

[Mick-7]

Thanks for that chart, Jimmy bn! Ive been playing 1573 voices on three string sets for years, but never saw how that would work alternating with 5137 voicing. Good.

I think that diagram is from a Mick Goodrick book ?

[Jimmy blue note]

I think that diagram is from a Mick Goodrick book ?

It sure is. One page to get you hooked. The first one's for free (Actually the whole thing is now thanks to Modern Guitar Harmony website) and if you like that, there's a lifetime of voice leading possibilities.
Marcel runs a handy dandy website dedicated to making this resource available for the inquiring and advancing guitarist.

[bako]

Close voice leading is a subset of voice leading in general. Sometimes it gets conflated as the only possible way.
It is though excellent training to be hyper aware of common tones and possible smallest movements in chord sequences.
The Mick Goodrick Almanacs work through close voice leading diatonic interval cycle progressions which cover a lot of ground.
In string ensemble writing the lead voice will often contain the most active melodic movements, the inner voices less so.

As a student, I find it helpful to study within constraints as well as in a more freestyle environment. Much to be learned.

[rpjazzguitar]

I think of voice leading mostly with respect to comping.

My first exposure was outlining A7 as xx56xx and then outlining D7 as xx45xx. And, then G7 and C7, each time just moving the same two fingered grip down a fret. To my ear, it sounds smooth and that's the whole point of voice leading (my view, and I'm not claiming to be speaking for anybody else or Truth).

So, the goal can be stated something like "outline the changes clearly, while making the transitions smooth".

It doesn't have to be 3rds and 7ths, or anything in particular. If you're playing a grip and you know the notes in the next chord, you can determine if any of them are staying the same -- and then move only the ones that need to be moved -- hopefully to nearby notes that still outline the chord. Bearing in mind that the bassist is contributing a note, often the root, and other people in the band may be contributing as well. Very helpful to know the notes in the chords you use -- and where they are on the fingerboard -- so you can access them directly.

As you get more familiar with the process, you can include extensions of the chords in the mix. So, for example, if the harmony moves from Cmaj to G7 you could play xx99 10 10 (B E A D, which is a version of Cmaj13) followed by xx 9 10 10 10 (B F A D, which is a version of G9). This chord change involved three notes that stay the same and one that moves.

Now, you might feel like you don't need to move any of the notes. If that's true, you're in the "no such thing as an avoid note" camp.
But, I digress.

Should you try to make every chord change alter as few notes as possible, as little (referring to pitch) as possible? I don't think so. It's an excellent thing to be able to do, but bigger movements can also sound great.

Similar logic can be applied to soloing. Seems to me this is a bigger discussion, since concepts like tonal center, scales/modes/arps quickly arise. But, to take a simple example and leave all those terms undefined ... you're playing the first four bars of All of Me. Cmaj7 to E7. You start out in C tonal center (all white keys) and then you come to the E7 which has a G#. You may, if you choose, decide you're still in C tonal center (because you are) but youi have to decide whether to play G or G#. If you raise the G to G# you can still use all the other white keys. It's a minimal adjustment and is likely to sound smooth unless you play a jagged line.

If you want to, you can think of it as going from C Ionian to A Harmonic Minor, 5th mode. That can elicit a long thread on scale conventions. I'll only say this much: life is short.

[Christian Miller]

This video came up and I think it’s a very good explanation of what I mean by ‘voice leading first’

This is not how jazz musicians think - because we are usually working over pre-composed harmonic progressions - but it is how the GASB song writers were often thinking.

It’s also the way to think when you are making a reharmonisation of a standard or arranging it for big band.

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[AllanAllen]

Wow, if this guy was my harmony 101 teacher at community college I might have stuck with a music degree. The (seemingly) arbitrary rules he talks about are when I started to think it wasn’t for me.

[Christian Miller]

Wow, if this guy was my harmony 101 teacher at community college I might have stuck with a music degree. The (seemingly) arbitrary rules he talks about are when I started to think it wasn’t for me.

Isn’t it good? He’s so clear.


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