Samba Triste

**sriazati** · 10-10-2025, 01:39 AM

Haven’t been able to find much about this samba online, I need help analyzing it.
I’m a beginner when it comes to jazz, so I’m not too sure how to play over m7b5 chords.

Here are the changes:

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**ragman1** · 10-10-2025, 03:51 AM

I’m not too sure how to play over m7b5 chords

There are two standard ways apart from arpeggios. One is the major scale a half-step above the m7b5, i.e. Eb maj over Dm7b5: D Eb F G Ab Bb C D

The other is to use the melodic minor from the 3rd of the chord, i.e. F melodic minor over Dm7b5: D E F G Ab Bb C D.

Which one you use depends on what sound you want. Mind you, when 'real' players improvise they don't often think in terms of scales like that. But probably you should at the start.

To be honest, you should really be asking your tutors. Jazz is a complex subject.

**Mick-7** · 10-10-2025, 04:14 AM

The VIIm7 chord in a major key is a m7b5 chord. For example, in Eb major, Dm7b5 is the VIIm chord so you can just play Eb major over it. It will work over the Dm7b5 & Db7, just be careful with the 6th scale tone (C) over the Db7 chord (over lower it to B and it becomes the Eb harmonic major scale: Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-Cb(B)-D).

You could focus on Eb & Ab major for the entire tune (since Fm7 is the IIm7 chord in Eb and the VIm7 chord in Ab).

But frankly, those are difficult chord changes, and at that tempo, you won't have time to think about scales so I would concentrate on playing chord tones. You can practice that by playing arpeggios over the chord changes and playing variations on the melody - simple phrases played rhythmically should be fine.

**ragman1** · 10-10-2025, 04:49 AM

The other thing is that at 200 bpm it's quite a fast tune. There really isn't time to think in terms of 'scales' per se, it's a question of playing a few notes before moving on to the next bars.

So I'd think in terms of a movement, a line that captures the feeling of the tune over the whole section. But that takes experience. Listen to Stan Getz.

That video of Baden Powell is really too complex to use as a model. To be honest, I found it a bit scrappy and not very clear at the start. I'm surprised they're giving you a tune like this in your first semester.

Like I said, see your tutor and don't be put off!

**Mick-7** · 10-10-2025, 07:24 PM

Here's my simplified key center analysis:

Samba Triste (Ab/Fm)

A. {Cm............................................... .......................... }

|| IIm7b5 | bII7 (V7 sub) | IVm7 | IIm7b5 | bII7 |

{ Bbm......................... } {Ab................. (Fm)........................ }

| IVm7(IIm7b5) | V7 | IIm7 | V7 | I - III7 (V of Im) | Im |

A section Turn-around:

{ Cm................................................ ......................................... }

|| IIm7b5 | IIm7b5 | bII7 (V7 sub) | I7 (V of IVm) | IVm7 |

B section:

{ Cm.....................................(Fm)....... ................................................. }

|| IIm7b5 | bII7 (V7 sub) - I7 (V of IVm [Cm], V of Im) | Im | Im ||

Dm7b5 & Fm7 are practically the same chord (D-F-Ab-C-Eb), both diatonic to Eb major.

Likewise with the Ebm7 > F7 progression in bars 5-6. You could think of the Ebm7 as a Cm7b5(b9),
so that's IIm7b5 (Ebm7/Cm7b5) > V7 (F7) > II/V/I in Ab.

As far as scales go, these would be my basic choices:

For: Dm7b5(Fm7) / Db7 / Fm7
Eb major & harmonic major (has b6th)

For: Ebm7(Cm7b5) / F7 / Bbm7 / Eb7 / Ab / C7 / Fm
Bb natural (= Db major) & Bb harmonic minor & F natural (= Ab major) & F melodic minor

**sriazati** · 10-11-2025, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

There are two standard ways apart from arpeggios. One is the major scale a half-step above the m7b5, i.e. Eb maj over Dm7b5: D Eb F G Ab Bb C D

The other is to use the melodic minor from the 3rd of the chord, i.e. F melodic minor over Dm7b5: D E F G Ab Bb C D.

Which one you use depends on what sound you want. Mind you, when 'real' players improvise they don't often think in terms of scales like that. But probably you should at the start.

To be honest, you should really be asking your tutors. Jazz is a complex subject.

Thanks for the help! I’ve been working on thinking in terms of chord tones shifting and emphasizing the changes by targeting the 3rds and 7ths. I recently started trying to voice lead lines landing on 3rds and 7ths, from my understanding voice leading is just having good movement from one chord tone to another?
Again, I realize this may be something I have to ask my teacher about, but let me know if my simple understanding is correct.

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**sriazati** · 10-11-2025, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Mick-7

Here's my simplified key center analysis:

Samba Triste (Ab/Fm)

A. {Cm............................................... .......................... }

|| IIm7b5 | bII7 (V7 sub) | IVm7 | IIm7b5 | bII7 |

{ Bbm......................... } {Ab................. (Fm)........................ }

| IVm7(IIm7b5) | V7 | IIm7 | V7 | I - III7 (V of Im) | Im |

A section Turn-around:

{ Cm................................................ ......................................... }

|| IIm7b5 | IIm7b5 | bII7 (V7 sub) | I7 (V of IVm) | IVm7 |

B section:

{ Cm.....................................(Fm)....... ................................................. }

|| IIm7b5 | bII7 (V7 sub) - I7 (V of IVm [Cm], V of Im) | Im | Im ||

Dm7b5 & Fm7 are practically the same chord (D-F-Ab-C-Eb), both diatonic to Eb major.

Likewise with the Ebm7 > F7 progression in bars 5-6. You could think of the Ebm7 as a Cm7b5(b9), so that's IIm7b5 (Ebm7/Cm7b5) > V7 (F7) > II/V/I in Ab.

Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to write this out for me. Much appreciated.
Do you mind if I upload a video eventually for feedback?

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**ragman1** · 10-11-2025, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by sriazati

Thanks for the help! I’ve been working on thinking in terms of chord tones shifting and emphasizing the changes by targeting the 3rds and 7ths. I recently started trying to voice lead lines landing on 3rds and 7ths, from my understanding voice leading is just having good movement from one chord tone to another?
Again, I realize this may be something I have to ask my teacher about, but let me know if my simple understanding is correct.

Using chord tones is certainly one way to begin although, as I understand it, a lot of teachers also recommend arpeggios at the beginning.

I'd absolutely see your teacher about it. You don't want a lot of different ideas descending on you from all over the place. One source that you trust is good enough.

**jazzeroo** · 10-11-2025, 10:59 PM

how he played it

Tabs

Baden Powell - Samba Triste

**jazzeroo** · 10-11-2025, 11:02 PM

and live, with his band:

**Mick-7** · 10-11-2025, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by jazzeroo

how he played it

Tabs

Baden Powell - Samba Triste

I didn't see any tablature on that website.

**kris** · 10-12-2025, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by Mick-7

I didn't see any tablature on that website.

**kris** · 10-12-2025, 02:15 AM

May be this help:

**jazzeroo** · 10-12-2025, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by Mick-7

I didn't see any tablature on that website.

yeah. it comes and goes. i don't know why.

**jazzeroo** · 10-12-2025, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by jazzeroo

yeah. it comes and goes. i don't know why.

so try this one:

Baden Powell Guitar Works – Free Classical Guitar Sheet Music and Tab

**jazzeroo** · 10-12-2025, 03:53 AM

Samba Triste - Baden Powell, 1963

**kris** · 10-12-2025, 07:00 AM

I recommend the book The Brazilian Masters by Brian Hodel.
It is a collection of beautiful Brazilian tunes....There is also Samba Triste//Sad Samba/.
Best
Kris

**Mick-7** · 10-12-2025, 01:58 PM

Thing is, the transcriptions you folks have posted won't help sriazati because they bear little resemblance to his lead sheet.

The chords shown in this backing track (link below) appear to be accurate, it's in A minor rather than F minor but the chords are similar. The Db7's in the A section of sriazati's chart is actually Dbo or C7b9/Eb7b9, and the last two chords before the tonic chord (Fm) in his chart, i.e., Db7 & C7, are also diminished chords, which would make them Db7b9 & C7b9 > Fm.

**jazzeroo** · 10-12-2025, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Mick-7

Thing is, the transcriptions you folks have posted won't help sriazati because they bear little resemblance to his lead sheet.

The chords shown in this backing track (link below) appear to be accurate, it's in A minor rather than F minor but the chords are similar. The Db7's in the A section of sriazati's chart is actually Dbo or C7b9/Eb7b9, and the last two chords before the tonic chord (Fm) in his chart, i.e., Db7 & C7, are also diminished chords, which would make them Db7b9 & C7b9 > Fm.

brazilian lead sheet:

samba triste.pdf