Taking private lessons (via ZOOM) with Robert Conti

[joe2758]

That basic set of skills is harder to master than one might think, and to deploy them with taste, cleanly, with a set of great tunes, would be a pretty decent achievement.

Yes, nothing to scoff at-- and in hindsight... I'm sorry if I came off that way.

The pro I see is it will get people making and playing arrangements faster and probably build some confidence early on.

I just imagine the line of thinking leading to thinks like, "I can't reach the melody note if I move the bass up a half step, so I'll just move it a minor 3rd. The inner voices are awkward if I use the ones from my maj7 voicing, so I'll use this -7b5."

So then they're "reharmonizing" all of a sudden a tonic C chord with and Eb half dim with a E note in the melody. That's rad if you resolve it-- but the odds of that happening continuing this train of thought is monkeys typing Shakespeare

[lawson-stone]

Yes, nothing to scoff at-- and in hindsight... I'm sorry if I came off that way.

The pro I see is it will get people making and playing arrangements faster and probably build some confidence early on.

I just imagine the line of thinking leading to thinks like, "I can't reach the melody note if I move the bass up a half step, so I'll just move it a minor 3rd. The inner voices are awkward if I use the ones from my maj7 voicing, so I'll use this -7b5."

So then they're "reharmonizing" all of a sudden a tonic C chord with and Eb half dim with a E note in the melody. That's rad if you resolve it-- but the odds of that happening continuing this train of thought is monkeys typing Shakespeare

Likely true but it's experimentation, and after a couple bad moves, the learner makes the adjustment. But they'd never try it without some kind of system prompting the attempt. My own journey started with the "Mel Bay Melody Chord System" book and the Steven Crowel arrangements, but I checked out Conti on CM a couple years back and it actually filled in some gaps for me.

[Tal_175]

So then they're "reharmonizing" all of a sudden a tonic C chord with and Eb half dim with a E note in the melody. That's rad if you resolve it-- but the odds of that happening continuing this train of thought is monkeys typing Shakespeare

That's where the cycle of fourths and chromatic motion come into play in this system. These movements create gravity, as Conti calls it. It works especially if you create local targets for this back cycling motion. Reg talked about this type of creation of tonal targets in his every post.

[joe2758]

What is meant by target? there's a huge difference in what you can get away with if you know where you're going

[Tal_175]

What is meant by target? there's a huge difference in what you can get away with if you know where you're going

A target is a chord you cycle back from. In other words, the place that the motion leads to. You don't necessarily stretch to motion from the beginning of the tune to the end but rather create harmonic phrases. Your targets may not be the chords in the original tune as your reharmonization my imply different changes over the same melody. The reharmonization can stay close to the original or can be more adventurous.

[joe2758]

Having an outline of target chords completely changes the game, I think that's where my confusion stemmed from. Though, where do the targets come from?

[Tal_175]

Having an outline of target chords completely changes the game, I think that's where my confusion stemmed from. Though, where do the targets come from?

This type of reharmonization is a creative process guided by your personal taste and to what extent you got these types of chord movements in your ear. There is no one correct reharmonization of a given melody. I haven't done a lot of reharmonizations in this style. My description of the process is based on how Conti and Mark Levine talk about it. Conti says in the book that he has done this for so many years that he would intuitively know how far he is from the target and therefore which bass note to start the chordal phrase with.

[rlrhett]

I know this has been said before, but Robert Conti‘s method of putting a cord under every melody note is an exercise. It is not how he suggest you actually create an arrangement that you might want to perform. It’s for the purpose of developing fluency.

If you’re actually trying to harmonize a melody for your own solo arrangement, he would have you put a bass note sometimes just once per bar, sometimes it might be a walk of a bass through the bar, often it’ll just be two bass notes per bar on the 1 and 3. Use your ears and your taste. He will say that he likes it pretty lush, but he’s completely open to very sparse use of chords.


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[JerryB]

Hi Tal, I just happened into this interesting thread. Although there's a lot of data in that DVD, you did a great job trying to explain the thrust of The Formula to Joe2758. In an effort to present an actual performance example, I took a few moments to locate two YT clips that demonstrate Conti's use of reharmonization. Yesterday is a full album cut, actually someone excerpted this from an LP and the other is a public video called a Trade Video. There's a section beginning at 1:28 that presents another excellent example of reharmonization. Hope this sheds some light on his reharmonization technique.

Yesterday

Trade Video
Solo section begins @1:28

[Tal_175]

Hi Tal, I just happened into this interesting thread. Although there's a lot of data in that DVD, you did a great job trying to explain the thrust of The Formula to Joe2758. In an effort to present an actual performance example, I took a few moments to locate two YT clips that demonstrate Conti's use of reharmonization. Yesterday is a full album cut, actually someone excerpted this from an LP and the other is a public video called a Trade Video. There's a section beginning at 1:28 that presents another excellent example of reharmonization. Hope this sheds some light on his reharmonization technique.

Thanks for the links, Jerry. It's clear that he really uses the ideas presented in The Formula in his actual performances. I enjoyed listening.

[SOLR]

Not to derail the thread,

On this Conti "Cherokee" YT

Notice much of the pickup poles are way up there close to the strings with only the B string' at level.



S

[MarkRhodes]

Not to derail the thread,

On this Conti "Cherokee" YT

Notice much of the pickup poles are way up there close to the strings with only the B string' at level.

If I remember, I'll ask him about that.
I do know that he's picky about his guitar setup. He once told me his luthier hates to see him coming.
He also told me he won't sit in with anyone else's guitar. He sits in with a blues band in California sometimes (they call him The Enforcer) but he takes his own guitar.

On another note, Herb Ellis talked about setting his guitar up so that each string had the same volume. He would adjust pickup poles so that this resulted.

[SOLR]

On another note, Herb Ellis talked about setting his guitar up so that each string had the same volume. He would adjust pickup poles so that this resulted.

Yes I remembered that H.E. did that, but here the poles seem so close to the strings , i guess the magnetic pull of individual poles is not as strong as that of the whole pup ?

And thx for asking him that would be great .

S

[MarkRhodes]

Yes I remembered that H.E. did that, but here the poles seem so close to the strings , i guess the magnetic pull of individual poles is not as strong as that of the whole pup ?

And thx for asking him that would be great .

S

I have a lesson with Robert Conti scheduled for next Tuesday (28 October.) I made a note in my booking to ask him about this. Doesn't guarantee I'll remember to do it, but it certainly ups the odds.

[MarkRhodes]

In SOLR's post (#36 above), a question arose about the pickup poles on Conti's guitar in that video.
I had a lesson with Robert Conti today and asked him about it.

The guitar in that video was the first prototype of the Entrada guitar. Conti started working on it in 2007. The guitar (-the first prototype) reached him in 2008. This performance is with the guitar right out of the box. His tech had not laid a finger on it, and Conti hadn't adjusted anything.

He hadn't noticed the poles being raised. "That's the way it came from the builder!"

Not the answer SOLR wanted, but that's why the poles are like that: that's how the builder did it.

Conti said he played that guitar on gigs for months. He loved the way it played.

[SOLR]

In SOLR's post (#36 above), a question arose about the pickup poles on Conti's guitar in that video.
I had a lesson with Robert Conti today and asked him about it.

The guitar in that video was the first prototype of the Entrada guitar. Conti started working on it in 2007. The guitar (-the first prototype) reached him in 2008. This performance is with the guitar right out of the box. His tech had not laid a finger on it, and Conti hadn't adjusted anything.

He hadn't noticed the poles being raised. "That's the way it came from the builder!"

Not the answer SOLR wanted, but that's why the poles are like that: that's how the builder did it.

Conti said he played that guitar on gigs for months. He loved the way it played.

Thank you very much for the follow up ,that answer saves me a whole lot of work

Much appreciated Mark.

S

[MarkRhodes]

Thank you very much for the follow up ,that answer saves me a whole lot of work

Much appreciated Mark.

S

Glad to do it.
I plan to have 1 or 2 lessons a month with him for a while. He's taught me a lot.
By the way, he said he's had a lot of requests for a transcription of the Cherokee solo. Stay tuned for more on that.

Here's a tune of his own over the Cherokee changes: it's called Rotation.