ATTYA Etude

[CliffR]

Last night I tried improvising some lines over the changes for the first 8 bars of ATTYA. Mostly working with the basic arpeggios, but trying also to incorporate some scalar lines. This really is a study, not a piece of music, so the lines are not really connected to each other. Quite pleased though that a little bit of rhythm popped in from Barry Harris's recording of the tune at one point.

[Mick-7]

This really is a study, not a piece of music, so the lines are not really connected to each other.

Connecting the lines would make it a genuine etude/study, you may want to do that, i.e., write out lines that connect chord tones. Doing it on the fly is often too difficult for anyone other than experienced improvisors.

[CliffR]

Hmm. I think there are plenty of lines here that connect chord tones from one bar to the next. What I meant by the lines not being connected is that they are not necessarily related one to the other, in the way that one might hope for thematic development in a real solo. Perhaps, given that this is not pre-composed, 'etude' is not a good word to describe it. But learning to connect chord tones on the fly is pretty much exactly my aim in practicing like this.

[Mick-7]

o.k., thanks for the clarification.... To me connecting the chord tones means creating a melodic or thematic relationship between them, creating lines that connect them, but it sounds like your goal here is not that but rather playing the chord tones over the changes in real time. Is that correct? If not, how are you attempting to connect the chord tones, what strategy are you using to do so?

[pamosmusic]

o.k., thanks for the clarification.... To me connecting the chord tones means creating a melodic or thematic relationship between them, creating lines that connect them, but it sounds like your goal here is not that but rather playing the chord tones over the changes in real time. Is that correct? If not, how are you attempting to connect the chord tones, what strategy are you using to do so?

I would also be interested to hear yours.

[Mick-7]

I would also be interested to hear yours.

Funny you should ask: Improv Etude/Study Group?

[CliffR]

how are you attempting to connect the chord tones, what strategy are you using to do so?

Yeah, I'm just playing chord tones over one chord, then moving to a chord tone for the next chord at the appropriate moment. Sometimes with scales instead, although this sounds less successful to my ears, probably due to the fact I've spent less time doing it. This is just a means to help memorise the arpeggios and discover paths between them.

[Mick-7]

Yeah, I'm just playing chord tones over one chord, then moving to a chord tone for the next chord at the appropriate moment. Sometimes with scales instead, although this sounds less successful to my ears, probably due to the fact I've spent less time doing it. This is just a means to help memorize the arpeggios and discover paths between them.

The easiest way to connect chord tones is to go to the nearest chord tone of the next chord, for example:

[Mick-7]

Another thing you can do is focus on certain chord extensions, e.g., here's an example of doing that with arpeggios of 9th chords.

[CliffR]

The easiest way to connect chord tones is to go to the nearest chord tone of the next chord

I appreciate the attempt to help, but that's what I'm already doing for the majority of the lines in the recording I posted.

As for including the ninths, I already posted an etude I wrote around a month ago where I'm playing arpeggios off each chord's third up to the ninth:

[Mick-7]

I appreciate the attempt to help, but that's what I'm already doing for the majority of the lines in the recording I posted.

o.k., I was just responding to your comment and what I heard you play, you said: "This really is a study, not a piece of music, so the lines are not really connected to each other." I wasn't hearing you connecting the arpeggios - or lines, I don't distinguish between the two, since the end goal is to make music with them.

[CliffR]

o.k., I was just responding to your comment and what I heard you play, you said: "This really is a study, not a piece of music, so the lines are not really connected to each other." I wasn't hearing you connecting the arpeggios - or lines, I don't distinguish between the two, since the end goal is to make music with them.

You really can’t hear me move to the nearest chord tone when the chord changes? It’s as plain as day to me.

Earlier you made a big deal about a definition of making connections - “ To me connecting the chord tones means creating a melodic or thematic relationship between them” - but now you’re contradicting yourself saying you make no distinction between connecting arpeggios and lines. Let’s hear you play something to illustrate your point.

[Mick-7]

You really can’t hear me move to the nearest chord tone when the chord changes? It’s as plain as day to me.

Earlier you made a big deal about a definition of making connections - “ To me connecting the chord tones means creating a melodic or thematic relationship between them” - but now you’re contradicting yourself saying you make no distinction between connecting arpeggios and lines. Let’s hear you play something to illustrate your point.

o.k., I guess you do try to connect them, sorry, I didn't listen to your entire video the first time, and your comment "the lines are not really connected to each other" seemed to contradict that.

"but now you’re contradicting yourself saying you make no distinction between connecting arpeggios and lines."

I meant no distinction between arpeggios and lines in that I have the same my goal with both: to connect them in a musical way.

"Let’s hear you play something to illustrate your point"

The arpeggio study with 9th chords that I posted illustrates it. What is your goal with these exercises?

[CliffR]

o.k., I guess you do try to connect them, sorry, I didn't listen to your entire video the first time, and your comment "the lines are not really connected to each other" seemed to contradict that.

"but now you’re contradicting yourself saying you make no distinction between connecting arpeggios and lines."

I meant no distinction between arpeggios and lines in that I have the same my goal with both: to connect them in a musical way.

"Let’s hear you play something to illustrate your point"

The arpeggio study with 9th chords that I posted illustrates it. What is your goal with these exercises?

I thought we'd already established what I meant by connecting lines to chord tones, and you thanked me for the clarification. As I said earlier, the purpose of this was "a means to help memorise the arpeggios and discover paths between them." The purpose of the video I posted a month ago was more ambitious, to get both pivot arpeggios and enclosures under my fingers over the changes. I now think this was too ambitious and it's better to make smaller and more focussed studies.

I'd like to hear you play your study. I can't sight sing so am not able to hear the musical connections you claim.

[Mick-7]

I now think this was too ambitious and it's better to make smaller and more focused studies.

That has been my experience too, take a specific type of pattern or strategy through the chord changes.

I'd like to hear you play your study. I can't sight sing so am not able to hear the musical connections you claim.

I'll post an improvised solo on ATTYU, that focuses on chord tones* - the study I shared was composed, not improvised.

* P.S. - I started to record a solo that focused on chord tones but decided it would be pointless, I think you know what you're doing and my input will not help.

[GuyBoden]

The purpose of the video I posted a month ago was more ambitious, to get both pivot arpeggios and enclosures under my fingers over the changes. I now think this was too ambitious and it's better to make smaller and more focussed studies

Edit: Personally, I'd try an etude using Autumn Leaves, I know it might seem a beginner's song, but it has both a Major and a minor ii-V-I.

I'm trying to keep my etudes/exercises very simple, so I can memorise them and then play them without notation.

[CliffR]

That has been my experience too, take a specific type of pattern or strategy through the chord changes.


I'll post an improvised solo on ATTYU, that focuses on chord tones* - the study I shared was composed, not improvised.

* P.S. - I started to record a solo that focused on chord tones but decided it would be pointless, I think you know what you're doing and my input will not help.

I was actually going to suggest you record something and start a new thread with it, something along the lines of 'this is how I go about practicing to help with a particular aspect of improvisation'. If you did - led by example, as it were - I wouldn't be surprised if others didn't follow suit. I'd be happy to record a quick something to add to your thread.

[Mick-7]

Yeah, I asked if people wanted to start an improvisation study group, wrong move, I should just start one. I apologize for being bombastic.