Mike Brecker/McCoy Tyner Quartatonic scale (4 note) based on Bb & F (4th) triads

[jzucker]

Mike Brecker/McCoy Tyner Quartatonic scale (4 note) based on Bb & F (4th) triads


This is a cool concept that is similar to triad pairs but instead of triads, uses 4th chord pairs. In this case, I'm
taking two 4th chords, Bb,Eb,Eb and F,Bb,Eb. These sound cool over a variety of chords but I was hearing them
over G7Alt for the purposes of this exercise. When you combine these two chords and eliminate the common tones,
you end up with a quartatonic note scale of F Eb Ab Bb which over the G7 gives you b7, #5, b9, #9.


Here is what the scale looks like. I would love to play these with 2 notes per string but the 4th interval makes
it too difficult for me. So instead, I play it as a modified 2 NPS with legato/slurs on the notes that fall on the
same string.


Here's the line played as an arpeggio with legato/slurs which allows you to use hybrid or economy picking.


And here it is as a sequence with legato/slurs

#jazzguitar #McCoyTyner #MikeBrecker #modernjazzguitar #daquisto #ibanezPM120 #ibanezMetheny #archtopguitars #clevelandjazz

[pawlowski6132]

Thanks

[jzucker]

Eye roll

I don't understand. This forum is the least supportive of anywhere I post these lessons. I've literally posted 100s of free lessons and rarely get a thanks or acknowledgement from anyone. Instead I get negativity.

I try to let it roll off my back but as someone who's bipolar, borderline and dysregulated, it sometimes makes me feel really bad.

[pawlowski6132]

I don't understand. This forum is the least supportive of anywhere I post these lessons. I've literally posted 100s of free lessons and rarely get a thanks or acknowledgement from anyone. Instead I get negativity.

I try to let it roll off my back but as someone who's bipolar, borderline and dysregulated, it sometimes makes me feel really bad.

Okay now I feel bad. Just ignore me. Honestly what do I know?

[srlank01]

Enjoying these lessons Jack! I love seeing alternate ways to create ideas.

[pamosmusic]

This is pretty much what he does on most threads, Jack.

I’ve been enjoying these. For what it’s worth, you’re so prolific that I can’t always post an interesting comment. But they are watched and appreciated.

[Mick-7]

I would love to play these with 2 notes per string but the 4th interval makes it too difficult for me. .... So instead, I play it as a modified 2 NPS with legato/slurs on the notes that fall on the same string.

I don't understand that sentence, what is it that you "would love to play two notes per string"?
Thanks.

[jzucker]

I don't understand that sentence, what is it that you "would love to play two notes per string"?
Thanks.

2 NPS like a typical guitaristic pentatonic scale.

Enjoying these lessons Jack! I love seeing alternate ways to create ideas.

Thanks, much appreciated.

[jzucker]

This is pretty much what he does on most threads, Jack.

I’ve been enjoying these. For what it’s worth, you’re so prolific that I can’t always post an interesting comment. But they are watched and appreciated.

Thanks, i get that. I appreciate folks occasionally chiming it but I also know there's a lot of material out there so folks can't comment on everything. Normally I shrug this kind of stuff off but when dealing with the low points of bipolar, it can sometimes feel worse than it really is when there's no engagement and when someone makes an effort to say something that's negative.

[Alter]

I think the series is extremely well done and to the point! Always being very high level ideas, but also very accessible, short, specific and well presented. I personally have enjoyed it a lot.

[Mick-7]

2 NPS like a typical guitaristic pentatonic scale.

As below? Or in some other way? (because I don't know why you'd say this is hard to play).

[jzucker]

I think the series is extremely well done and to the point! Always being very high level ideas, but also very accessible, short, specific and well presented. I personally have enjoyed it a lot.

thanks, means a lot

[kris]

I don't understand. This forum is the least supportive of anywhere I post these lessons. I've literally posted 100s of free lessons and rarely get a thanks or acknowledgement from anyone. Instead I get negativity.

I try to let it roll off my back but as someone who's bipolar, borderline and dysregulated, it sometimes makes me feel really bad.

Hi Jack,
I am surprised that you have only noticed it now.
You are a great jazz player and great jazz educator.
I don't know what it results from but I have the impression that all those who can really play here are not fully appreciated.
Maybe it's the internet or maybe there is no interest.
Don't worry about it and do your job.
Best
Kris

[pamosmusic]

As below? Or in some other way? (because I don't know why you'd say this is hard to play).

I would imagine fourths on the same string are what would be the hard part

[jzucker]

As below? Or in some other way? (because I don't know why you'd say this is hard to play).

Now try playing it starting with first finger on the Bb of the Low string. The 2nd note will be Eb meaning that you are slurring a 4th in both directions. Some folks (holdsworth) can do that. I can't. Most of my students can't. Therefore, I try to compromise on such things.

[jzucker]

Hi Jack,
I am surprised that you have only noticed it now.
You are a great jazz player and great jazz educator.
I don't know what it results from but I have the impression that all those who can really play here are not fully appreciated.
Maybe it's the internet or maybe there is no interest.
Don't worry about it and do your job.
Best
Kris

I didn't notice it just now. At one time, the moderator here allowed a 20 page hate thread dedicated to how horrible I was as a player and person. This forum is just not very friendly and is overly aggressive. Ironically, I get more response on the gearpage than here and more negativity here.

Also, being bipolar, there are times where the negativity is really personally hurtful. When the hate thread occurred, I was in the low side of the bipolar swing and coming to this forum and seeing that thread was like a hot knife twisting in my gut. Common sense would tell you to just not look at it but we don't always do what is best for us.

[pilotony]

Hello Jack:

Thanks for taking the time to post this. Your posts are always informative and instructive. Keep on posting.

Tony D.

[pamosmusic]

Now try playing it starting with first finger on the Bb of the Low string. The 2nd note will be Eb meaning that you are slurring a 4th in both directions. Some folks (holdsworth) can do that. I can't. Most of my students can't. Therefore, I try to compromise on such things.

Yeah I can do this at maybe the ninth fret, but not really any lower.

@mick ... some broader context for Jack's stuff. His big book is called "Sheets of Sound for Guitar" and it is what it sounds like. Technique taught through common patterns and licks taken from improvisers who play in that sheets of sound sort of style. So a lot of stuff is specifically notated to get that cascading polyrhythmic effect. So things that could be played any number of ways are usually written with specific economy picking, hybrid picking, or slurring patterns that get the musical effect.

It's also quite fun to take some of those patterns and rearrange the fingerings -- often you get a really tricky cross picking thing instead of a tricky slurring thing, or something like that -- but it's worth remembering that you're probably not getting the specific musical effect the passage is trying to illustrate.

[kris]

I didn't notice it just now. At one time, the moderator here allowed a 20 page hate thread dedicated to how horrible I was as a player and person. This forum is just not very friendly and is overly aggressive. Ironically, I get more response on the gearpage than here and more negativity here.

Also, being bipolar, there are times where the negativity is really personally hurtful. When the hate thread occurred, I was in the low side of the bipolar swing and coming to this forum and seeing that thread was like a hot knife twisting in my gut. Common sense would tell you to just not look at it but we don't always do what is best for us.

Here there is a lack of real musician playing jazz.
And this is the reason for not understanding.
Jazzingly Yours
Kris

[Mick-7]

I would imagine fourths on the same string are what would be the hard part

o.k., but I don't know why you'd want to do that, instead I'd try to develop the technique to make it sound like it's played on the same string.

But, yeah, consecutive 6 fret stretches to play repeating patterns, it is a beech tree. Dave Creamer used to do it, seemed to be the most efficient way to play some of his lines, as it is with Allan Holdsworths lines. However, it would require most guitarists to completely revamp their fingering system, because one needs to have near equal facility with all four fingers of the fretting hand to do it habitually. And if you don't make it a habit (I never did), you will avoid doing it.

[pamosmusic]

o.k., but I don't know why you'd want to do that, instead I'd try to develop the technique to make it sound like it's played on the same string.

But, yeah, consecutive 6 fret stretches to play repeating patterns, it is a beech tree. Dave Creamer used to do it, seemed to be the most efficient way to play some of his lines, as it is with Allan Holdsworths lines. However, it would require most guitarists to completely revamp their fingering system, because one needs to have near equal facility with all four fingers of the fretting hand to do it habitually. And if you don't make it a habit (I never did), you will avoid doing it.

I would note that "developing technique to make it sound like it's played on the same string" is precisely what Jack is describing here. But also ...

See below:

Yeah I can do this at maybe the ninth fret, but not really any lower.

@mick ... some broader context for Jack's stuff. His big book is called "Sheets of Sound for Guitar" and it is what it sounds like. Technique taught through common patterns and licks taken from improvisers who play in that sheets of sound sort of style. So a lot of stuff is specifically notated to get that cascading polyrhythmic effect. So things that could be played any number of ways are usually written with specific economy picking, hybrid picking, or slurring patterns that get the musical effect.

It's also quite fun to take some of those patterns and rearrange the fingerings -- often you get a really tricky cross picking thing instead of a tricky slurring thing, or something like that -- but it's worth remembering that you're probably not getting the specific musical effect the passage is trying to illustrate.

[Mick-7]

I would note that "developing technique to make it sound like it's played on the same string" is precisely what Jack is describing here.

Not really.... Jack didn't achieve that when he played the notes on different strings, which I presume is why he said he'd "love to play it all as two notes per string."

Just to be clear, considering the sort of advanced stuff that Jack plays, I was surprised to hear him say this was difficult. But I think it's like I said earlier, if you don't make a particular playing technique habitual, it will not be "easy" for you.

Thanks for the Sheets of Sound memo, I knew about it many years ago from his old Yahoo Jazz Guitar Group posts, but never looked into it.

[pamosmusic]

Not really.... Jack didn't achieve that when he played the notes on different strings, which I presume is why he said he'd "love to play it all as two notes per string."

Just to be clear, considering the sort of advanced stuff that Jack plays, I was surprised to hear him say this was difficult. But I think it's like I said earlier, if you don't make a particular playing technique habitual, it will not be "easy" for you.

Thanks for the Sheets of Sound memo, I knew about it many years ago from his old Yahoo Jazz Guitar Group posts, but never looked into it.

I mean sure. You can't make not slurs sound like slurs, but there's value you to attempting that cascading effect with whatever technical tools are available. On the flip side, I play a very different kind of guitar -- more down the middle bebop vibe stuff -- and I've gotten a lot of value from using the techniques Jack outlines to get the musical effects I'm using more often. Stuff like playing a quintuplet economy picking line as triplets and eighth notes.

And yes, excellent book. I bought it just before I went to college. Fifteen plus years ago. Unfortunately lost the original in a move. Have the digital one now. Also the follow up and one of the legato books -- I'd be lying if I said I'd really been able to dig into those though.

[jzucker]

Not really.... Jack didn't achieve that when he played the notes on different strings, which I presume is why he said he'd "love to play it all as two notes per string."

You are putting words in my mouth. I chose the fingerings I wanted based on personal choice. There is no rulebook for jazz and certainly not fingerings and you are clearly capable of coming up with your own fingerings.

[ccroft]

I like the sound of this. Thanks for all your posts Jack!