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Here's a couple of tech notes from the AxeFX designer about the relationship between transformer and speaker impedance effects an amps feel, and the related topic of negative feedback
The Secret Weapon: Transformer Match | Fractal Audio Systems Forum
About Negative Feedback | Fractal Audio Systems Forum
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03-13-2022 08:26 AM
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Thanks. A bit too specific and requiring a bit too much background knowledge but I get the gist. The 2nd link took me way back to my early student days... now if only I could remember exactly what they tried to teach us about (op)amps ...
Originally Posted by CliffR
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I have one of those Dutch bikes with a front luggage carrier. I put some foam and I strap the amp to the front rack. Originally Posted by pingu
I also have a cart for my bike. I can put a small PA in it:
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I bet before that you put it part on the frame, part on the handlebars? Originally Posted by Little Jay
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Hahaha, you must be Dutch as well! Originally Posted by RJVB
I bet before that you put it part on the frame, part on the handlebars?
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that’s so enterprising !
and it’ll keep you fit too
well done mate
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Zou je denken? Originally Posted by Little Jay
(Yup)
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Good video I thought
as a side note - I’ve been running my PRRI since 2015 on quite a few gigs and lots of practice and haven’t replaced the tubes once. Perhaps I am a bad tube amp owner, but I haven’t noticed a degradation in tone or anything let alone any issues that would cause me to replace them.
Maybe part of this is down to the fact I run them quite gently - I don’t know?
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After exchanging a number of emails with Rick Jones I decided that the Doubleshot would work better for me. The Coda looks interesting so it's possible I'll check one out in the future.. Originally Posted by pingu
Danny W.
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Underwater on the Award Session site is some reference material by Steward Ward: Originally Posted by RJVB
tube_vs_solidstate_amp_tone_1 (award-session.com)
Transistors are bad!.pub (award-session.com)
amploud1.qxd (award-session.com)
RetroTone_1.pub (award-session.com)
RetroTone_3.pdf (award-session.com)
tubes_louder1.pub (award-session.com)
(lots of interesting articles to browse thru there: Index of /pdfs (award-session.com)
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I think that Peavey TransTube also uses some sort of negative feedback to simulate the tube amp transformer/speaker interaction. Originally Posted by CliffR
Chapter 3 on this page talks about it. Whitepapers
Personally I like the sound of my Peavey Bandit. I think the main reason is that it has a lot of clean headroom without clipping.
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Whilst I believe the negative feedback interaction between
the OT and the Loudspeaker in a tube amp is part of
the magic of tube amps
see Session Retrotone , HH amps ,Peavy transtube etc
It can't be the whole story .....
there must be something else going on that no-one has
Identified yet .....
or .... Has Fender worked it out ?
Everyone I've read who've tried the Tonemaster combos
Says they play and sound just like the original tube amps
Is there anything published by Fender on their design ?
I wonder who did the designs
It appears they may have finally nailed it
It would be good if they put a TM delux or TM Twin amp into
a small or pedal format
I'd certainly buy one ....
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I've also read reviews where the players were disappointed in Tonemasters. If I were in the market, I would have to test drive it myself. Originally Posted by pingu
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Originally Posted by pingu
I think Fender has finally worked out that if they put their ToneMasters in the exact same cabinet as the old ones, people perceive their sound almost the same…..
Okay, I am being too cynical here, haven’t tested the ToneMaster series, so I shouldn’t judge too quickly, at least not until I tried one. Perhaps they do have some magic ingredient! I am pretty sure they also use some form of negative current feedback circuit. Reviews are very positive indeed.
But I do think psychology also plays a role!Last edited by Little Jay; 03-14-2022 at 04:29 PM.
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I resemble that remark. At lower (some might call it reasonable) volumes the TM Deluxe just sounded lifeless to me. My curiosity was sated. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Man, that's biking pro!! Originally Posted by Little Jay
I have one of those Dutch bikes with a front luggage carrier. I put some foam and I strap the amp to the front rack.
I also have a cart for my bike. I can put a small PA in it:
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ok sorry , till now I hadn’t seen any negative reviews Originally Posted by kevmoga
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Go onto TDPRI. Originally Posted by pingu
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Ok so it appears Fender haven't nailed Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
tube amp emulation ....
ok so back to my point that
there’s more to it than constant
current or constant voltage o/p stages
negative feedback etc etc
and even after all these years
nobody knows what it is
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Have a quick read through those fractal articles posted earlier. Some iconic amp designs do not incorporate negative feedback (Vox, Mesa) and yet, magic still happens... Originally Posted by pingu
people often comment on tube amps with adjectives like ‘3D imaging’ and ‘depth of tone’ and ‘organic touch under fingers’. I think what they are hearing and responding to is a signal intensity dependant combination of compression and sympathetic harmonic resonances.
That multi variant transfer function seems to be the holy grail of SS or digital modelling. We humans have been trying to mathematically define nature for centuries.
I also think the player hears it more than the listener/ simply because the player expects a response to their immediate action and the response may be exact or slightly (favourably) flawed. The listener expects only to hear a nice guitar sound in time with the rest of the music.
EM.
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Running the gently is a big part of it. I've been using mostly tube amps for half a century. I have replaced a few tubes, but fewer than one would think. I attribute this to 1. Sheer Luck, and 2. Persistent and some might say, extreme, caution. Allow me to expand on this a bit: Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Standby switch is to be used liberally. After the amp has been in the room to acclimate, turn it on, and leave it on, using the standby to play it or not. Gig done, turn it off, give it a few minutes to cool a bit, and put the cover on the amp. No cover? Get one. Nothing will extend the life of your amp more than a decent cover. It helps protect your amp from thermal shocks, as well as dust and so forth. Heat your vehicle in winter, and haul your amp on the back seat. Belt it in. In my wagons and hatch backs, amps rode on a minimum of six inches of foam rubber, and under blankets, snugged up against the back seat so they don't slide around when braking. Shock, thermal and mechanical, is the amp killer. Baby your amp as you do your guitar. Use a dolly to move it around, being particularly careful with steps, door sills, etc. to keep movement smooth and easy. Keep spare tubes and fuses. You may never need them, and be glad if you don't. Just be prepared if you do.
Also, do your own schlepping. When you set your amp down, do so gently and silently. You don't want some mook throwing your expensive gear around noisily to impress somebody with their heroic he-man (cave-man) strength. That's why I don't use casters on my stuff - anything with wheels will automatically be piled with more stuff and rammed over sills, not good for speakers. Dolly, yes. Casters, no.
Basic, common-sense stuff, which invariably needs to be explained because the obvious is so frequently overlooked. Treat your amps with care, and they should give you many, many hours of reliable service.
Last edited by citizenk74; 03-16-2022 at 11:14 AM.
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Citizenk74 definitely has a point: I have an old Guyatone Twin Reverb copy - early model from the late 60ies - that has never been on the road and spent most of its life as a studio amp, and it still has the original Toshiba tubes it came with and they still sound and function fine!
My ‘road amps’ are transported on the back seat of my car, never in the trunk or booth. My other ‘road Twin’ has casters, but only for indoor use on smooth surfaces. It has some sturdy Russian 6P3S tubes that have been in there since forever…..
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Hello
A little update on the tube front....
Is a tube shortage imminent? Mike Matthews confirms Electro-Harmonix brands are subject to Russian export ban | Guitar World
Luc
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In a guitar store, I learned that a Tone Master Twin Reverb can make a Rickenbacker 620 sound dull. Originally Posted by pingu
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The Tone Masters use an ICEpower module for output, a 200AS1 I think. This has a very low impedance bridged output where the speaker is driven at both ends so it would be very difficult to sample the speaker current to provide the feedback to make a high output impedance. It could be done but the sampling resistor would have half of the speaker drive volts on it and it would require a feedback network with extremely good common mode rejection to isolate the much smaller current feedback signal consistently in a production amp. Originally Posted by Little Jay
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