2013-15 Gibson Issues

**vinnyv1k** · 05-01-2017, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dennis D

And where is the walnut used - -in a similar place on all models ?

They use 2 walnut strips on the 5 piece laminated neck.

**Ren** · 05-01-2017, 11:46 AM

I have an L5CES, L5 Premier and ES175 VOS, all model year 2014 (they were built in late 2013). So far I haven't had any issues with lacquer checking, binding checking etc. I am pretty meticulous about managing the humidity in the room where I store my guitars; except for extreme weather days it stays in the 45 to 55% range. Of course, after reading this thread, I'm going to go home tonight and give all three a careful inspection!

**Max405** · 05-01-2017, 12:56 PM

I suspect we will hear a lot of good stories along with the bad.
You know, wet wood could easily get mixed in with the dry.. Especially pieces that are the thickness of veneer.
I guess as they say, mileage may vary..

But if you buy new Gibsons, you have every right to expect perfection. Especially at those prices. Vinny isn't exactly sitting back watching investments mature into guitars. He is out there bustin his butt, working like a 21 year old.

Joe D

**Matt Cushman** · 05-01-2017, 01:12 PM

Walnut and maple is a combo that should work well for a neck. I wonder what type of glue was used to laminate the 5 main pieces of the neck? If a white glue or a hide glue was used then moisture may be playing a role in the movement that is causing the finish troubles. It seems it could also be a possible finish issue. Walnut is an open grain wood and maple is a closed grain wood so very good sealing of the open grain walnut is a must.

**vinnyv1k** · 05-01-2017, 01:34 PM

JD my man ! I think every period has issues like in the 90's with the inlays delaminating on the headstock.
Right now it is green / wet wood no question. I have a 08 L5 that is as perfect today as the day I bought it.
Memphis has been all over the map every year but as the Nashville Custom shop goes I am now saying the 1st ten years of the 21st century was pretty darn good. After the fretboard raid it's iffy.

Look at the used blonde Byrdland at Wildwood. Mine has the exact same checks they point out in there pic.
Also look what happened to Lawson's new L5 with the binding bleeding. It is either green wood or a bad Lacquer formulation.

I have found if you have gone 3 years with no issues on a new Gibson you are home free or at least in my case.

I will say the fret jobs are perfect on the new ones. No flat tops. Perfect crowns. Almost as good as a Matt Cushman fretjob. :-)

**Max405** · 05-01-2017, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Matt Cushman

Walnut and maple is a combo that should work well for a neck. I wonder what type of glue was used to laminate the 5 main pieces of the neck? If a white glue or a hide glue was used then moisture may be playing a role in the movement that is causing the finish troubles. It seems it could also be a possible finish issue. Walnut is an open grain wood and maple is a closed grain wood so very good sealing of the open grain walnut is a must.

It is always great when an expert comes on and gives his expert opinion.
Thanks Matt.

Joe D.

**vinnyv1k** · 05-01-2017, 02:23 PM

There is a visual difference between expansion checks and shrinkage checks. These are shrinkage no doubt.
It is basically a value loss thing. They all play great. Checks do cost you a grand or 2 if you ever decide to sell unless you get into vintage which is 25+ years......I will be dead.

My advice......buy Gibson's that are at least 5 years old. If it is good it will stay that way most likely.

**Matt Cushman** · 05-01-2017, 03:19 PM

Sometimes vintage guitars are better because they have been repaired a few times. The finest instruments are in for work on a regular basis. No one bothers to work on the lower class stuff.

**lawson-stone** · 05-01-2017, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Look at the used blonde Byrdland at Wildwood. Mine has the exact same checks they point out in there pic.
Also look what happened to Lawson's new L5 with the binding bleeding. It is either green wood or a bad Lacquer formulation.

This is not quite accurate. I didn't get a new L5 that then had bleeding on the binding. I bought it well aware of that, and enjoyed a significant discounted price to boot, ending up with a guitar way above my own merits whose only shortcoming is something that is not even visible most of the time.

Yes, pity the first owner who paid the full price and got this effect, though I still am not convinced it isn't something an owner prior to "my" seller did. At any rate, the guitar is otherwise exquisite. No checking anywhere that I have seen, perfect neck, no problems with the walnut/maple lamination, and it's stunning to look at.

I am not in any way disappointed in this guitar, and the moment I play it, I think, "Yeah, that's how Gibsons are supposed to play.."

**vinnyv1k** · 05-01-2017, 05:37 PM

Lawson that is it. "Heavily discounted". Would you have paid $8.5K for it like that ? I doubt the original owner enjoyed the big value loss on his brand new L5.

It's a bit like buying a brand new car and someone keys both sides. Yes it still runs perfect but the value just went into the toilet. It's nice to enjoy the new car smell and looks for a couple years.

It's great buying a used L5 for $5K with some minor issues unless you are the seller that just paid thousands more for it.

**Bluedawg** · 05-01-2017, 06:06 PM

The bleeding on the binding is an ongoing debate with Gibson fans and haters a like ....

Some consider it to be historically authentic .... Gibson is using a historically accurate die that tends to bleed into the binding and this can be seen in some vintage examples

If Gibson uses some die product that doesn't bleed then they are not providing the vintage Gibson lover with a new instrument built as close as possible to those built in Gibson's golden age

This bleeding usually happens some time after the guitar leaves the factory and usually long after it has found a home with the first buyer. It's likely the bleeding on Lawson's guitar hadn't occurred, yet, when it went home with the original owner.

The company's past is both boon and bane in this respect .... building guitars as close as possible to their golden age sometimes means not using new and improved techniques and materials that can help produce instruments with fewer QC problems

If they make the haters happy they'll piss off some of the lovers ...

in the end, it's the lovers that are more likely to throw money at a new Gibson than the haters, so they get the preferential treatment

**lawson-stone** · 05-01-2017, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Lawson that is it. "Heavily discounted". Would you have paid $8.5K for it like that ? I doubt the original owner enjoyed the big value loss on his brand new L5.

It's a bit like buying a brand new car and someone keys both sides. Yes it still runs perfect but the value just went into the toilet. It's nice to enjoy the new car smell and looks for a couple years.

It's great buying a used L5 for $5K with some minor issues unless you are the seller that just paid thousands more for it.

Vinny
I love you man, but you really know how to make a guy feel like his wonderful newly acquired guitar is a piece of junk. You've trash-talked the ES175 VOS, which I have and love like crazy, now you compare my L5ces to a keyed car...

Enjoy your perfection, but try to be a little kinder to the rest of us who have to live with compromises.

My last word on this thread.

**vinnyv1k** · 05-01-2017, 06:26 PM

Lawson you have completely taken my comment wrong. You got a wonderful guitar at a wonderful price. I am comparing "my" new Gibson's to the keyed car that I paid full price for not yours at all.
You got a great guitar at a great price. I did not. You got the good deal I did not.

on the VOS ES175. Yes I do not like them but am very happy you love yours. That is all that matters....if you are happy.

**Stringswinger** · 05-01-2017, 06:31 PM

Guitars are like women. If you are after perfection, expect lots of disapointment.

Nobody is perfect and neither is any guitar. Years ago, a wise man twenty years my senior told me that all women have problems. The secret he said, was finding one with a set of problems that you could live with.

The same could be said about guitars.

**vinnyv1k** · 05-01-2017, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Guitars are like women. If you are after perfection, expect lots of disapointment.

Nobody is perfect and neither is any guitar. Years ago, a wise man twenty years my senior told me that all women have problems. The secret he said, was finding one with a set of problems that you could live with.

The same could be said about guitars.

Henny Youngman.......take my wife Please ! :-)

BTW this was just a heads up on new Gibson's. I am not bashing Gibson. Wood does weird stuff. At the beginning of this post I was quite clear that I wasn't blaming Gibson. Just what I am seeing. I love my Gibson's.
My perspective right now is that it may not be wise to buy new ones right now is all.

Lawson I am extremely happy for you. I was in no way bashing your L5 at all.

**Ren** · 05-01-2017, 07:43 PM

OK as promised I inspected my trio of Gibsons and the only flaw I could detect is a tiny bit of dye bleed into the binding on my '14 L5CES (vintage sunburst) near the neck heel on the back side. I can't find any of the other flaws Vinny has experienced. Now, I trust and respect Vinny as an authority on all things Gibson. The issues he experienced may not pertain to all Gibson archtops of this era ('13-'15), but certainly should give a buyer pause.

Vinny, here's where we may disagree, hopefully amicably. Like Lawson, I really love my '59 VOS 175. Maybe it's because I play it acoustically most of the time, and my single pup '59 is really lively! I can almost cop some of those (much maligned) Joe Pass Virtuoso tones, except, alas, for the shortcomings in my playing skills.

**vinnyv1k** · 05-01-2017, 08:00 PM

The 59 has a great acoustic voice and I have found that guys really love them or don't. Don't get me wrong. They please a whole lot of ears and are great axes. I personally like a darker sound but that is just me.
Nothing wrong with loving a VOS. I bought a few cause they look so cool. Just not my sound. I like the more modern heavy build thunk sound of the regular 175 but they wouldn't be making the VOS if cats didn't love them.
In fact Gibson stopped production of the regular 175 again and is only making the VOS. I am just a single opinion which doesn't mean a whole lot.

**Stringswinger** · 05-01-2017, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

The 59 has a great acoustic voice and I have found that guys really love them or don't. Don't get me wrong. They please a whole lot of ears and are great axes. I personally like a darker sound but that is just me.
Nothing wrong with loving a VOS. I bought a few cause they look so cool. Just not my sound. I like the more modern heavy build thunk sound of the regular 175 but they wouldn't be making the VOS if cats didn't love them.
In fact Gibson stopped production of the regular 175 again and is only making the VOS. I am just a single opinion which doesn't mean a whole lot.

Vinny, around here your opinion counts. (I also prefer the later sounding 175)

To borrow from an old financial services commercial "When Vinnyv1K speaks, people listen"

**Max405** · 05-01-2017, 08:23 PM

Guitars are like women in some other ways too.. They cause trouble with the boys.
Lawson, I thought it was a little peculiar that Vinny mentioned your absolute beauty of an L5, especially after the offline conversation we had about it a couple of weeks ago. He absolutely RAVED about it, rightfully so. He's never liked the VOS guitars because the build is too light. If memory serves me, he is the same numbskull that returned a perfectly perfect LeGrand for the same reason. If there was ever a person in this world who meant no harm, it's our Vinny.
Joe D

**MaxTwang** · 05-01-2017, 08:56 PM

One way to thunk-up a '59 VOS is by replacing the wood bridge with an heafty'er ABR-1. Metal saddles for a more modern sound, nylon saddles for a bit softer attack. Kluson makes an affordable ABR-1 with brass or nylon saddles.

The lighter build of a '59 VOS w/ ABR-1 and nylon saddles is a really nice combo for mellower tone, with metal saddles it has a nice clarity and sustain without being bright.

Amazon has a decent price on a non-wired ABR-1 (currently < $50).

Amazon.com: Gibson Gear PBBR-059 Electric Guitar Part: Musical Instruments

**MaxTwang** · 05-01-2017, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Checking on the neck binding edge and some random binding nib checks.

Hence the much thicker binding on modern styled Gibsons.

While I like the vintagy vibe of reissues the vintage binding, Lifton cases and, arguably, vintage frets are things I could live without.

**cosmic gumbo** · 05-01-2017, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Guitars are like women. If you are after perfection, expect lots of disapointment.

Nobody is perfect and neither is any guitar. Years ago, a wise man twenty years my senior told me that all women have problems. The secret he said, was finding one with a set of problems that you could live with.

The same could be said about guitars.

Golly, I heard this is what Maybelle Carter told her daughters about men...

**vinnyv1k** · 05-02-2017, 03:05 AM

Joe is right. I raved about Lawson's L5 to JD. Prettiest color ever. Joe is also right. I like thicker top archtops.
Nothing wrong with the VOS at all. Some guys like chocolate some vanilla. It's a Gibson.....my brand of choice.

I paid full new price on my Gibson's. Stings more when thing go funky on you. I am over it. Now I need to just play the finish off the necks. Problem solved.

Lawson offending you is something I just don't do or at least not intentionally. I was merely pointing out that you got a smoking deal on a new L5 because of a finish issue. It doesn't make your L5 inferior in any way except the better price you were able to get it. You got a great guitar at a great price.

**Lobomov** · 05-02-2017, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

The bleeding on the binding is an ongoing debate with Gibson fans and haters a like ....

Some consider it to be historically authentic .... Gibson is using a historically accurate die that tends to bleed into the binding and this can be seen in some vintage examples

Yes ... I remember when looking at a Rusty Anderson ES-335 that I regret not buying. The sales man showed me the red bleed in the binding and was proud that it was a vintage correct 59 reissue.

**Bluedawg** · 05-02-2017, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Lobomov

Yes ... I remember when looking at a Rusty Anderson ES-335 that I regret not buying. The sales man showed me the red bleed in the binding and was proud that it was a vintage correct 59 reissue.

I have a Les Paul that has developed the bleed. I have some pictures from soon after I bought it and you can tell it had not happened, yet.

Seems to be most common with red dies like the one on Lawson's gorgeous L5 ... the color is much more common on LPs, especially those with cherry sunburst finishes.

I can see why some people don't like it.

I'm in the middle on this one with a slight lean towards the vintage correct side.