-
I hope we can get away from the harsh words and get back to a friendly discussion.
Thanks for posting those Lawson. The Epiphone did seem to be recorded significantly hotter than the Gibsons, which might make it seem a bit brighter in a comparison. I dialed the right channel volume back a bit when listening to that one and it seemed a little more like the others.
Earlier you mentioned that you could have tweaked the EQ on each guitar to find its sweet spot. I think that's a great idea but more difficult, time consuming and subjective. It's how I'd compare three guitars if I were shopping. Based on my listening (through a good speaker system) I suspect the three instruments are similar enough that you could dial them in much closer than on this recording. If you attempted to get them as close as possible in tone and volume then recorded three tracks without identifying which is which, I wonder if anyone could identify which was the Epi. (I'm waiting for someone to take offense at that statement!)
One important factor that's difficult to distinguish in these backing-track recordings is how balanced and smoothly the tone of each guitar changes as you move up and down the neck and from string to string. How do you feel they compare for solo guitar playing?
Even though you're only interested in the amplified sound, if playing live at moderate levels the acoustic voice is typically part of the mix. The acoustic voice can also give clues to the causes of differences in the amplified voice. So I'm curious, do all three instruments have similar unplugged voices to your ears? No need for another set of recordings - I'd just like your impressions.Last edited by KirkP; 01-18-2017 at 03:13 PM.
-
01-18-2017 03:07 PM
-
Actually I'm done with this thread. The Epiphone live really is louder and brighter. I am sure others are better equipped to provide a more helpful comparison and I eagerly await their contribution.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
Ah, the Internet... so easy for things to get out of hand. Thanks for the video, Lawson. Of course there are always deeper layers of comparison we could do, but that's kind of not the point, in my mind.
-
I for one have enjoyed this post and Lawson's demo of the three guitars was more than expected and better than many I've listened to, well done.
I like the 165, 175 & lastly the EPI, the recording is a little hotter, but I also hear a brightness in the higher range on the EPI - all good.
Who's next?
-
I for one have enjoyed this post and Lawson's demo of the three guitars was more than expected and better than many I've listened to, well done.
I like the 165, 175 & lastly the EPI, the recording is a little hotter, but I also hear a brightness in the higher range on the EPI - all good.
Who's next?
-
Vladan, is English your mother tongue? I suspect it's not. It's not mine either, and I know I've written things here that came across much harsher than I intended too, just because I don't know all the nuances of the English language.
I enjoyed Lawon's unscientific test very much as well, and found it very informative! Thanks again Lawson!
-
All in all, I thought it was a very good test. It's nigh on impossible to get a perfectly controlled experiment, but I think you demonstrated something quite useful. It shows that there's a core, basic similarity in these three guitars, with differences one can most likely chalk up to the sort of individual variance that happens within pretty much all of Gibson's models. That, and you showed that an Epi premium 175 is in the ball park with "real" ones. Also, from what I've read about Classic 57s, there built to fall within tolerances of windings, DC resistance, and magnetic strength. They're each and every one of them exactly identical, so you'll get slight differences in tone from pup to pup.
Originally Posted by lawson-stone
John
-
The Epiphone was NOT "recorded hotter." The Epiphone IS LOUDER on the same identical settings through the same identical amp with the same identical control settings with the same identical microphone into the same identical interface set to the same identical gain, than the other two guitars. That's just the fact. It was recorded identically to the other two. It is louder at the same setting than the other two. That's one difference, and I thought it was useful to put out there. Originally Posted by KirkP
Sorry I didn't have a studio to produce a perfect, scientific mix for you guys.
I promise, I won't do it again. No more side-by-side comparisons for this guy. I'll let the brilliant engineers and successful recording artists go out and buy the guitars and take the to their studios and make sure all the meters are set and all the levels or whatever are just perfect. You can do all the work.
This took a out 4 hours out of my work day to do during a week in which I've buried my wife's mother and had to deal with family issues. I'm not a pro, just a guy trying to help out.
I'm sorry now that I spent that time on this project. It will not happen again.
-
Hey Lawson,
Ease up. You did a super great job & threw yourself out there.
Very nice work, and thank you so much for putting up this super useful comparison vid too, as the topic of the Epi 175 has been pretty hot around here -- especially as it has been on blowout discount prices recently. . .
I've been jonesing for a Gibson 165 for a few years now since I played a nice one & let it slip away . . . but meanwhile, my Epi 175 Premium scratches that itch -- mostly.
An excellent contribution to the Jazz Guitar Forum IMO
-
I think you misunderstood my intent, Lawson. What you did is valuable and much appreciated. I'm just making observations based on what I heard and am trying to add value to the discussion. Sorry if it sounded like criticism. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
It's surprising how much louder the the Epi is at the same settings. Could the difference in wood types make that much of a difference in amplified volume? It makes me wonder if there's something different about the pickups, but I know they are advertised as identical. A tech could pull the pickups and compare sensitivities, but I'm sure that's way out of scope for your project.
Last edited by KirkP; 01-19-2017 at 12:07 AM.
-
I really enjoyed the comparison. Like many I personally prefer the 165, but I was really impressed with the tone you got from the Epi. It's n amazing value for what one gets.
-
Thanks for your hard work on this Lawson, I for one really enjoyed it and appreciated it. I own the Epi and absolutely love it, though I am not a very good player and haven't played anything really comparable.
Nice work!
JP
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
-
Lawson,
There are four important rules for living right:
1. Always do your best
2. Always keep your word
3. Never make assumptions about others
4. Never take anything personally.
Some guys geek out to an extreme extent. Do not take their ideas, critiques, etc. personally. It is their problem, not yours. You did a great job. Sorry to hear about your mother in law. You are a good guy and did a service to quite a few guys (and gals) with this demo.
BTW, if the pole pieces on the Epi are even a single mm closer to the strings than on the 2 Gibbys, the Epi will record with a hotter signal, assuming the pups have the same output.
Keep on picking!
-
Good point. Maybe the height of the pole pieces could affect the tone a bit too. I'm guilty of neglecting pole adjustments, partly because I'm afraid of making things worse and not being able to find my way back. Maybe it's time I read some how-tos on the topic. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
Once again, I never meant to say what you did was not good in any way. It was one very good presentation. The idea to hear them all at same gear settings and both in context and on their own and the way you did it was rather cool. I said I wished there was more data, but also, I thought I made it clear, did not think it took anything from your fine effort, or it was your job to provide it. You presented what you thought was important and you did it well. Mentioning other things that also may be important is not negative critique of your work. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Sorry it came out that way.
Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube
-
This thread is very helpful Lawson. I'm looking forward buying a jazz guitar in the 175 style and keep going back and forth, asking myself if I should pay a big amount of money for a Gibson, or if the Epiphone could fill my book.
Your video has showed me the Epi can easily do the job for me. I'm not a pro player and just want to have a good guitar that will let me work and progress, with the 175 sound I love.
And since you seem to really enjoy the playability of the Epi, it's also a very important thing besides the sound, I've made up my mind and am going to get it.
And as a conclusion, don't get upset by guys who always think they're clever, criticize, and afterwards fake they didn-t want to upset you.
There are ways to give advice and I agree with you.
Thanks again for your work.
-
This thread is very helpful Lawson. I'm looking forward buying a jazz guitar in the 175 style and keep going back and forth, asking myself if I should pay a big amount of money for a Gibson, or if the Epiphone could fill my book.
Your video has showed me the Epi can easily do the job for me. I'm not a pro player and just want to have a good guitar that will let me work and progress, with the 175 sound I love.
And since you seem to really enjoy the playability of the Epi, it's also a very important thing besides the sound, I've made up my mind and am going to get it.
And as a conclusion, don't get upset by guys who always think they're clever, criticize, and afterwards fake they didn-t want to upset you.
There are ways to give advice and I agree with you.
Thanks again for your work.
-
BTW hotter signal and difference in sound is likely due, as we can see in the picture, in EPI, it is not 57 PU, but rather 57+, which should be some kind of overwound 57, more wire = more ohms = hotter output. According to Gibson site "+" are built to tighter standards and also are a bit more expensive than "no +" variety.
Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube
-
I think only the bridge pickup is a classic 57 "+", so if it's the case, only the neck pickup is used in the test, so the hotter signal of the Epi might be due to another factor (pickup height? louder acoustic sound?)
-
Awesome video Lawson. Loved the comparison and your playing was sweet too, didn't expect that with your "warning".
I'm nowhere near your level of playing but will be picking up my Epi 175 tomorrow night after ordering it a few days ago based on posts similar to yours, so although I didn't need it to convince me, I'm sure it'll help others potentially decide to pull the $500 trigger. Plus it was cool to hear the differences!
Next time you should do an audio only comparison and just use the epi dialed in at different tones for all the examples and really mess with people...haha!
-
That is possibility, but we don't know for real, do we? In specs for guitar they say both PUs are the same, so if one is +, the other should be too, isn't it? On the other hand, since they gave wrong info about one PU, there's no reason to believe the info they gave for another one is correct, so again it implies the other one is also +. Originally Posted by Jx30510
However, since their info is wrong in absolute terms, we can not know how much of it could be actually true, so it is possible there to be 2 different PUs.
Also,
Hope you could point us to criticizers and fakers in this thread, I'd to know who they are, so I could avoid them? Originally Posted by Jx30510
-
Common Vladan, stop fussing around.
-
All you do here is mess up what people are doing or saying, goofing around and trying to be more clever than everyone . It's not even useful arguing with you.
The OP has said it, he's done with the thread, whose fault in your humble opinion?
-
And as Lawson said, just buy the damn guitars and make your own opinion.
-
So you meant I was that faker. Well, well, who would guess. I wonder, do you mean only in this thread, or in general? Originally Posted by Jx30510
Is it general impression I give to members, as well, like I'm trying to present my self as a clever one? Wow!
As for Lawson and his participation, I never criticized his work. I said I was sorry it came out that way.
It was THE last time I said I was sorry for something I have not done.
As for you, just fuck off.
Reply With Quote
Recommandations for Hollowbodies for $600 and under?
Today, 05:20 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos