Gibson & Epiphone ES-175 Compared

[goldenwave77]

I wonder how that Epi would sound with tape wound LaBella strings?

[djelley]

The Epi is brighter, no doubt. But changing the TOM for a wooden bridge makes a big difference in that, for very little money. I bought one from Stew-Mac for ~$20, took < 5 minutes to install it, and the difference in tone was obvious.

How well does the StewMac bridge match the curve of the top?

I absolutely, positively, was NOT going to buy any guitars this year. That lasted 17 days. There was no way that I could pass-up buying one of these for under $500. I really need to stop reading this forum.

Seriously - great post Lawson!

[goldenwave77]

I put one of the Stew-Mac bridges on my L-4. Pretty close fit...didn't even go through the sandpaper pasted to the top and rubbing back and forth procedure to match the contour of the top. Definite change from the TOM bridge: less metallic and jangly sounding. An improvement, to my ear.

I think I'm going to take the plunge on the LaBella tapewound string set, and bring in my baby to my luthier/tech guy. I think it's going to need a little nut work. He can fine tune the bridge contour.

[seaguitar]

Is there a difference in the necks & playing feel b/w the vos 175 and the epi? I've read the 59's are supposed to be chunkier.

[mr. beaumont]

Any bridge is going to need to be fitted, but the StewMac ones are definitely decent. I put one on my 575, as the original bridge had two different high E slots cut (and I didn't agree with either of 'em.)

The fitting process is kind of fun, and takes about a beer and half, two beers tops.

[sgosnell]

The Stew-Mac bridge has a split base, which bends enough to match most tops without sanding. I did a little bit of sanding, but not a lot.

The pinned bridge isn't really a problem. You can just unscrew the adjustment screws themselves to raise them up into the base and allow movement. I had to do that on mine with the TOM because the setup drone put the pins in the wrong place, and I couldn't get the intonation correct with my strings even with a couple of the saddles moved as far as possible. The wooden bridge covers the holes in the top, so they're invisible. IMO the pinned bridge is a terrible idea, but it's not the worst thing they could have done.

I tried the LaBella tapewounds, and hated them. I took them off within a week or so. They just sounded bad on my Epi. I still have them coiled up somewhere, and I might try them on my electric 5-string mando. Those can always handle a little mellowing.

[M-ster]

Gentlemen, with all the discussions going on about comparing the Epiphone ES175 Premium to a "real" ES175 etc, this afternoon I decided to record the identical music on the Gibson ES175 VOS1959, the Epiphone ES175 Premium, and the Gibson ES165 Herb Ellis (older model).

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Very informative!

[lawson-stone]

Is there a difference in the necks & playing feel b/w the vos 175 and the epi? I've read the 59's are supposed to be chunkier.

The Epiphone has the typical slimmer Epiphone neck. I find it comfortable, but I also like the chunkier Gibson neck. Same goes for the Aria PE180/Epiphone Elitist Broadway L5ces clones. The Epi has the slimmer neck, the Aria duplicates the thicker Gibson neck, and actually I like them both.

[bleakanddivine]

I put one of the Stew-Mac bridges on my L-4. Pretty close fit...didn't even go through the sandpaper pasted to the top and rubbing back and forth procedure to match the contour of the top. Definite change from the TOM bridge: less metallic and jangly sounding. An improvement, to my ear.

There's no fitting needed - just slip a new wooden top part over the posts of the original base instead of the metal TOM. Although some bridge tops may need a bit of sanding away the recesses where the adjustment wheels sit. I've done it on ES175, L4 and Epi 175.

[Little Jay]

I sincerely doubt the Epiphone Classic 57 is exactly the same as the Gibson Classic 57:





Gibson:

[goldenwave77]

There's no fitting needed - just slip a new wooden top part over the posts of the original base instead of the metal TOM. Although some bridge tops may need a bit of sanding away the recesses where the adjustment wheels sit. I've done it on ES175, L4 and Epi 175.

Well that entire TOM (incl. the base piece) got transferred to a Benedetto-type acoustic floater archie, and that livened up that guitar. As I've said before, never would have predicted this result ahead of time.

Experimentation (within reason) can be useful.

[Jx30510]

Thank you very much for this video
The most informative test of the Epi and the original one. I like the Epi, it's very close, a bit brighter, but it seems to me it has a little more sustain?
It's really a great recreation for a modest price.
And your playing is very nice, singing and melodic.
Your work gives rewarding results.

Little Jay do you really think that Epiphones 57 pickups aren't real Gibsons, but clones?
Bigmike had the same feeling on a another thread... I was kind of sceptic but the idea seems making it's way?!

[Jx30510]

And by the way Lawson, what strings are you using on the 3 guitars?

[lawson-stone]

I sincerely doubt the Epiphone Classic 57 is exactly the same as the Gibson Classic 57:





Gibson:

The pic pickups in my Epi ES175 look like the ones on your Gibson.

[christianm77]

If I carry on getting on with my Gibbo I might pick up an Epi as my touring box.

[lawson-stone]

Thank you very much for this video
The most informative test of the Epi and the original one. I like the Epi, it's very close, a bit brighter, but it seems to me it has a little more sustain?
It's really a great recreation for a modest price.
And your playing is very nice, singing and melodic.
Your work gives rewarding results.

Little Jay do you really think that Epiphones 57 pickups aren't real Gibsons, but clones?
Bigmike had the same feeling on a another thread... I was kind of sceptic but the idea seems making it's way?!

Epiphone specifically says on their website for this instrument: "Gibson USA '57 Classic Humbucker" and looking inside the instrument the bottom, for as much as that tells, looks just like the pickups in my Gibson ES175.

[lawson-stone]

And by the way Lawson, what strings are you using on the 3 guitars?

T-I jazz swing, 12.

[2bornot2bop]

The pic pickups in my Epi ES175 look like the ones on your Gibson.

Well, I guess that settles that. Amazing, the pickups on the Epi '175 nearly cost as much as the entire guitar at GC. Even at retail, I don't see how there's enough profit in each guitar to be worth a dealers time. Perhaps that's why so many are found as price blowouts?

[lawson-stone]

Well, I guess that settles that. Amazing, the pickups on the Epi '175 nearly cost as much as the entire guitar at GC. Even at retail, I don't see how there's enough profit in each guitar to be worth a dealers time. Perhaps that's why so many are found as price blowouts?

I would suggest that it shows that you can put a really good pickup on a merely competent guitar body and come close to duplicating a history-making design!

Also... let's not forget the "cost" of the pickup is an inner manufacturing cost, which I imagine is far less than we'd think... it's likely almost worth it to by the Epi 175 just to harvest the pickups!

[Doctor Jeff]

The newer Epi 175 Pros have the Gibson pickups.

Pickups ain't rocket science. I doubt they cost Gibson too much to make wherever they make them.

I have the Gibbie classics in my 135 and of course they have a sweet sound.

Interestingly, I have Epi Classic 57's in my Peerless Sunset, and they are great pickups for that guitar. I had an Epi JP with Epi Classics and didn't like them so much--makes me wonder if Epiphone has improved their production techniques from '99 to '14? Or maybe they just don't sound so great on certain guitars (fully hollow)?

[2bornot2bop]

I would suggest that it shows that you can put a really good pickup on a merely competent guitar body and come close to duplicating a history-making design!

Also... let's not forget the "cost" of the pickup is an inner manufacturing cost, which I imagine is far less than we'd think... it's likely almost worth it to by the Epi 175 just to harvest the pickups!

Like the PAF pickups some harvest from the early 60's '175's? Oh my, another hidden value!

[citizenk74]

If I carry on getting on with my Gibbo I might pick up an Epi as my touring box.

You sound terrific with your ES-175 Gibson. The Epiphone would make very good logistical sense as back-up (strings do break, and giving the nod to your excellent bassist for a solo would cover the switch to the Epi, leaving the string change for break time, rather than interrupting a set) and for traveling under less than ideal conditions. I mean, contingencies must be allowed for, right? If Lord Baden-Powell taught me anything, it was "Be prepared." And yes, I am sometimes an enabler. What are friends for?

[christianm77]

You sound terrific with your ES-175 Gibson. The Epiphone would make very good logistical sense as back-up (strings do break, and giving the nod to your excellent bassist for a solo would cover the switch to the Epi, leaving the string change for break time, rather than interrupting a set) and for traveling under less than ideal conditions. I mean, contingencies must be allowed for, right? If Lord Baden-Powell taught me anything, it was "Be prepared." And yes, I am sometimes an enabler. What are friends for?

Hahaha....Not this year... And not until I sell some of the others... :-)

[lawson-stone]

The newer Epi 175 Pros have the Gibson pickups.

Pickups ain't rocket science. I doubt they cost Gibson too much to make wherever they make them.

I have the Gibbie classics in my 135 and of course they have a sweet sound.

Interestingly, I have Epi Classic 57's in my Peerless Sunset, and they are great pickups for that guitar. I had an Epi JP with Epi Classics and didn't like them so much--makes me wonder if Epiphone has improved their production techniques from '99 to '14? Or maybe they just don't sound so great on certain guitars (fully hollow)?

I think they quit putting their own in there and for their top-line guitars, they are using Gibson Classic 57s. That's what their sales material claims, at any rate.

[Little Jay]

The pic pickups in my Epi ES175 look like the ones on your Gibson.

Ah ok, seems they have genuine 57 Classics nowadays then! I was doubting because I found several pics of Epiphone 57 Classics like the ones I posted that don't resemble the Gibson 57 Classic. My guess is those are from older models then (maybe Les Pauls), before they switched to real ones.

So you make an interesting case with your comparison! What causes the difference in sound? I would be tempted to make the Epi sound even closer to the Gibbies, starting with a wood bridge.

Btw, great playing!