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Must be the combination of the tube preamp and 6V6 power amp with the GT-100 in between in the effects loop. Sounds great to me and the people who have heard it.
Originally Posted by agentsmith
YMMV
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10-14-2016 09:04 PM
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I was watching a Sweetwater video of a new Line 6 Spider V amp. Looks interesting. Not very much money either. ~ $300 for the 60 watt model.
Last edited by Bach5G; 10-14-2016 at 11:50 PM.
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yes, i've used one like that and it indeed sounds good in that context. Originally Posted by Archtop Bill
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Unless I'm missing something key here, isn't this usage essentially as a multi-fx unit hooked up to a tube amp? That is, the pre and output stages of the tube amp make or break the sound? And if so, what is being 'modeled' in this setup? If the backbone of the sound is a decent tube amp, is it the ability to tweak speakers, cabs, rooms? And Jack, with the Fractal solutions, do you feel the same holds true, even if you may have chosen to run without tubes in the chain? Sorry if these are dumb questions, guys. Originally Posted by agentsmith
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No, with the kemper and axefx, there is no longer a need for a tube amp. When I got my kemper, I sold all my boutique tube amps. I had literally $10k+ worth of boutique two rocks, hand made dumble clones, BF fender amps, etc. All sold. Then when I tried the axefx II, I realized it was the next step beyond the kemper (mainly because the effects on the kemper were not as good as real stomp boxes whereas the axefx are pretty much equivalent) and now I only have the ax8 and axefx II. Don't miss tube amps at all. Originally Posted by aboutIt
I can sound like Holdsworth, Gambale, Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, Tal Farlow, John Scofield, Pat Metheny, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Jaco, Willis, + it's the best acoustic guitar amp in the world. Nothing else comes close.
I don't need to use pedals either.Last edited by agentsmith; 10-15-2016 at 06:39 PM.
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AgentSmith, For use novices, can you give us the benefit of your knowledge to get to where we should be without going through all of the iterations? I fundamental agree with what you are saying, but can you give us some "hard" recommendations to benefit from your experiences, and knowledge?? It would be greatly appreciated.
BTW I for what it's worth, I really appreciate your knowledge and perspective! You are one of the great benefits to this forum. I mean that sincerely.
Originally Posted by agentsmith
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I'd recommend the Alto TS210A cab https://www.amazon.com/Alto-Professi.../dp/B018W4719I
And either a used Kemper or axefx AX8 or Axefx II.
You should be able to find the kemper or Axefx II under $1500. The ax8 sells new for around $1300. Used ones will eventually come up at $1100ish but they are rare at this point.
The kemper amps sound as good as the axefx but the effects are mediocre. If you want convincing gain for holdsworth or SRV overdrive, you will need to use external pedals with it. If you are playing mostly clean with reverb, the kemper is perfect for that. It's also got a great dumble tone with MBritt's robben ford amp. But again, the effects are not fabulous on the kemper.
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Thanks Jack, and everyone else for the info. Much appreciated.
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No pun intended but I happen to disagree on the mediocricity of the Kemper effects and certainly strongly disagree that it only does cleans well ... it will actually (re-)create any sound near perfectly. It will also allow you to profile your favorite signature tone with your equipment at home and take this with you on stage where it will come out of the PA just as you hear it at home. I am sure the axe stuff is great too (never tried one).
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First of all, I didn't say it *ONLY* does cleans well and gave an example (robben ford tone) of where it excelled at overdrive. Originally Posted by FrankLearns
But I couldn't disagree more about the effects. You're drinking the kemper forum cool-aid. I'll tell you a technical reason why the effects are mediocre. The kemper doesn't have the processing power of the axefx. The kemper has a single audio processor that is about 1/3 the power of one of the axefx (dual) processors. This is why the kemper has been out for years and there is still no spring reverb. The balancing act is dedicating enough of its relatively meager CPU for the amplifier, having enough bandwidth to do proper effects and not having those effects negatively effect the main processing of the profiles. The effects of the kemper are not even close to those of the axefx. In fact, when I a/b'd even the simple effects such as the tube screamer and a fuzz pedal with the real things, they fail miserably. One very poor artifact of the kemper overdrives for example is that they have way too much gain. You can't get just a teeny bit of fuzz or overdrive out of them. You are forced to compensate for this by doing things like putting a boost pedal in front of the overdrive and setting the boost to a negative level to lower the input gain going into the fuzz or overdrive but then you have to compensate on the back end of the overdrive pedal which is not only counter-intuitive but takes up additional CPU bandwidth that would be better suited for the original effects, were they designed better.
The reverbs and delays on the kemper are passable but not anywhere close to the best pedal reverbs and delays whereas axefx not only sounds like the better pedal delays but comes close to studio quality dedicated reverbs and delays, not to mention it can emulate things like spring reverb and tape delays.
Additionally, the chorus on the kemper is pretty poor.
On the other hand, if - like me - you already have some good pedals, you can just put them in front or in the loop of the kemper.
And on that robben ford overdrive, I actually felt that it was the one amp sound I liked better than than the axefx. But trying to do something like holdsworth sounds (both clean and dirty) with the kemper is a frustrating experience because of all the multi delays holdsworth uses.
And to make matters worse, the kemper forum is extremely defensive. When you bring up any issues you will be smacked down by the forum regular fanbois who don't want to hear any negative traits of their pet product. This, of course is cognitive/confirmation bias and occurs in all web forums including axefx but it's a bit frustrating because kemper doesn't actually don't get the real picture of where they need to spend their time on improvements.
OTOH, it's pretty clear the the main user base for kemper is for low-tuned hardcare / alt metal so maybe they *ARE* listening to where they should best spend their time on improvements...
The guys requesting spring reverb are by far in the minority for example. Hardcore metal guys don't even use reverb.Last edited by agentsmith; 10-16-2016 at 08:28 AM.
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... I'm not even on the Kemper forum, just using my ears ... sorry that I have different opinion than you :-)
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No problem. I use my ears too and I loved the kemper and the only reason I swapped it out for the axefx was because of the poor effects . I spent literally dozens of hours going back and forth on it because I loved the fender cleans and dumble, fender, marshall and vox overdrives on the kemper and it took me weeks to dial in the equivalent tone on the axefx. It's pretty universally accepted that the effects on the kemper are mediocre but if you love them and think they're great, that's a good thing! Originally Posted by FrankLearns
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This is what the Yamaha THR series is going after as quoted from this review of the THR10C which I really like: Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
"This is another unique element of THR's amp models," added Ward. "While they are based on classic amps as a starting point or reference, they're not designed to be a perfect simulation of another amp. Instead, our engineers create the best sounding amp based on that type of circuit they can make ? just like amp modifiers like Mesa Boogie, Splawn and a host of other boutique amp companies (who mostly started by making amps based on either modded Fender or Marshall designs) ?...."
"I think a lot of players are looking for what they think an amp sounds like rather than what it actually sounds like,"
"Lots of these amps are actually quite hard to get a good sound from (unless you're John Mayer, Joe Bonamassa or Eddie Van Halen playing in a great sounding room with amazing mics, recording equipment worth millions of dollars and a top-class engineering/production team). Is it better for us to attempt to create a totally accurate replica of the sound and response of a DC30 (or whatever) or just make an amp that has that vibe in terms of sound and response and is fun, engaging and easy to play? Of course, there's an argument for both, but for what THR is designed for (essentially a high-end practice amp, not a pro toolkit) we decided on the latter."
"Sure, you could argue that the response of our Mini model doesn't have the exact same sound or response as a 1xEL84, 1xGT12AX7M, 1x10 combo but then my response would be threefold," Ward told me. "First, if you want the exact sound you get from a Dr Z Mini Z, buy a Dr Z Mini Z ? but good luck using it as a USB interface or getting that tone in most situations without getting dumped/divorced/arrested. Second, change the power tube in that amp (or even the venue you're playing in) and the sound and response will probably change ? what that amp, or any other tube amp, sounds like isn't static or perfectly predictable ? it's just about having a great sound and a good response. Which leads me nicely onto the final point: Whether or not the models in THR are good sounding, usable amp models? We believe so ? the obsession with digital versus tube or whether an amp model sounds like the real thing is a bit of a moot point to us, what actually matters is how your amp sounds and plays."
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Tweakability is essential, as what sounds good is not only debatable, but contextual. The full palette is what any artist would like to have at hand. I'm reminded of the Reverb article I read recently where it was suggested that, for example, Clapton's opening tone on 'Layla' sucks. What does that even mean? It's one of the defining colors of that work, expressive in its own way. It was described as 'harsh and buzzy'. I think it conveys the mood perfectly. So the ability to get that tone, plus tones that are not that tone, is a good thing. The end goal is expression.
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Speaking of the context of tone always reminds me of The Rolling Stones. Keith Richards tone always sounds great in the context of the band, but the first time I heard his guitar isolated I was shocked at how much I hated the way his amps sound.
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For me, anyway, a lot of the sounds I love are somewhat 'defective'. The opening to Jeff Beck's rendering of 'You Shook Me', for instance. 'Human' tones. The warmth is in the imperfection, it seems. Definitely not a sterile sound.
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I use a ax8 for some month now and get all the sounds I dreamed of. So I hope I can calm my conscious long enough for using such a expensive toy that I forget about the price tag.
All of you that try to change to a modeler give your self some time to get accustomed to the feeling of no amp in the room. After you got over this its a real pleasure and you finally hear what the audience hears.
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I played a Kemper for about 1/2 hour in an iso booth at a music store and found the effects uninspirational. Compared to the Strymon Flint I own there certainly is a difference between the two. I much prefer the Flint.
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I found the "amp in the room" saga to be highly overrated. One thing you hardly ever hear the hardcore players on TGP discussing is how the modeling amps totally eliminate the peakyness of a closed or open back cab "in the room". Even the absolute best speakers in the best boutique tube amps sound very different (and harsh) when you are sitting directly in line with the voice coil. This is why you see so many players like SRV putting duct tape over the grill to take the peaks coming from the voice coil. Originally Posted by JWS
Thus, one of the additional beauties of modeling amps is that when you run through an FRFR amp, you don't have to deal with swapping speakers, speaker sizes, etc.
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The time delay (chorus, reverb and to a lesser extent the delay) are not good. Not in the same league with pedals but surprisingly, the rat, tube screamer and other overdrives are also not very good. And no pitch vibrato or univibe. This is where the axefx shines though I recently picked up a vibe-machine univibe clone and much prefer it to the univibe in the axefx. Originally Posted by BigToe
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Agentsmith, thanks for your detailed comments on the Kemper vs. Fractal. The Helix is the third that is always mentioned in that discussion, and I was wondering what your thoughts are on it.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Agentsmith has been banned here for a while. Check jzucker on the gear page.
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