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Why is there so little interest on the forum? Did solid-state just become the goto solution. If I could lug around a twin it would be my preference. I was using an AI through a Raezer. But have moved to a moddeler + FRFR. Reason. Weight and flexibility of tone. Specifically, IRs.
I am influenced by the players. They are both inspiration and source. And sound. Jim Hall, hell, I love the sound he gets on Guitar Jazz. Wes. Grant Green Bud Pizzarelli and Frisell.
There is no substitute for the player. But the technology is that. Technology.
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10-11-2016 07:44 PM
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Do a search. There are plenty of folks using modelers. I used tube amps and SS amps for years. I have had a 1/2 dozen dumble clones, original BF fenders, marshalls, etc. I have also owned many boutique amps such as Dr Z, badcat, Bruno, Gries, fuchs, mark kane, two rock, etc.
Originally Posted by deselby
I'm now using an axefx II and AX8 for everything. I sold all my tube amps and SS combos.
Several of us are using kemper and there are some others as well. By and large, I think there are a lot of old timers on here that will never give up their tube amps though so it's a hard sell. Many claim that the modelers sound harsh and metallic. Others know better.
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I did a search. It was the reason I posted. I'm an old timer, ergo the comment about the twin
. Nice to find we are of like mind.
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I've been using a Helix into an FRFR monitor lately for all sorts of different styles of music and I'm getting really close to ditching my only tube amp. The convenience and quality won me over almost immediately once I got the complete setup.
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As I don't have the money for the Kemper or the Axe FX I use a preamp pedal (polyclone or barb q or ethos clean) plus a multi fx and IR device (amplifire or zoom ms100bt plus epsi plus DI). I loved my Mambo and love my friend's blackface Vibrolux but modelling is the best option these days, no doubt!
For FRFR I use two Mambo PA cabs, couldn't be happier.
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Honestly, IME they sound... I'll just say not as good as great tube amps.
Buy a silverface super reverb, you'll never want for another amp.
Except maybe an old hot rodded marshall....
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I don't understand the OP. Are you upset that some folks still use non digital amps? Why do you care? Use what works for you, thats the most important thing.
For example, I love a certain tone that most jazz guitarist don't, but I' m not gonna get upset about it. I will use an amp that works for me, and that's pretty much all that matters, no?
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been there, done that. I actually used to repair old fenders and marshalls so I've had a ton of them from real plexis to BF super reverbs and vibroverbs. All things considered, I'll take the axefx anytime.
Originally Posted by vintagelove
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I primarily use 3 modes: electric jazz, acoustic jazz and acoustic. I mean these as sonorities. Again, rock that's more roll than rock and '60s r'n'b. Originally Posted by wyndham
And each sonoroty is independent. It's the player who plays the song.
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@Hep to the jive. It's not a complaint but an observation. As I said, I searched for the term. Am I in the wrong forum?
Last edited by deselby; 10-11-2016 at 09:07 PM.
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So much of jazz is associated with clean tones and tons of headroom. For most, modelling is not needed, just an amp that has the aforementioned characteristics. This is readily achieved with quite a few solid state, but there are some classic tube amps such as the Twin Reverb and Princeton that make for excellent jazz amplification.
Depending my mood, I like a little dirt. This is why I used a Mustang for a few years. The '59 Bassman model was great for growling blues. This year I have been upgrading my rig with the Mustang replaced with Super Sonic 22: a 6V6 tube amp. This past weekend I added a Boss GT-100 multifx pedal. Hooking this up to the tube amp using "the four cable method" gives me both worlds. I can avoid having the GT-100 color the Super Sonic preamp but take advantage of the volume pedal, graphic eq and various other subtle effects. I can also employ the amp models, stomp boxes and have all sorts of fun and diversions, but I did get it to add ambiance to my playing.
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I don't think you are in a wrong forum, but what that means 'searching for the term'? I'm not a native English speaker, and never heard that expression before, sorry. Originally Posted by deselby
I never had a problem with finding analog sound that I liked. I used ZT Lunchbox for a long time and loved it. I have AER amp that I love too, and use with analog preamp pedal to make it sound like tweed Fender... And recently I got the tube amp that has absolute best tone for me- Vintage 47. It's small and light, weighing like 18 pounds, I can lug it around all day.
I never liked Fender Twin sound, so I guess I'm lucky that way, I don't have to look for a portable sub.
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I used an Axe FX for years and sold it when I got my AX8. I still have a Fender Deluxe Reverb and a Blues Jr, but I only have them set up for use around the house. The music room is always Fractal Audio AX8. The AX8 is what I always use for gigs too. I made my own patch using the Buddha Twinmaster setting for my jazz stuff and I love it.
The interesting thing about the Twinmaster on the Fractal Audio firmware is that this model was just something Cliff made by ear. It wasn't modeled the way they normally do amps.
I'd be interested in what the other guys using Fractal products are using in their main patches.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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People always put amps vs modellers on the perspective of what sounds better and the reason people use modellers, a lot of the times, has nothing to do with it. Even if a tube amp sounds better (which it doesn't to me but anyway), if a modeller gets you close enough or just a sound you like it has lots of advantages - lots of different sounds, lots of effects, a "miced amp" sound vs a "amp in the room" sound which can be very important for people who gig, the ability to go to a gig with just a guitar and a gig bag, consistent sound all the time, no need to change tubes, less dependence on sound guys and their mic techniques, etc...
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only in recent years. None of the original jazz guitarists (benson, martino, wes, grant green) had totally clean tone with tons of headroom. Originally Posted by Archtop Bill
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I'm not "against" modelers, but those I've seen have been pretty expensive, so I click away.
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Marc, I had the same problem (and size). A setup of a Barber Barb EQ (150) plus a Zoom MS100BT (130 stock plus 20 for fx on the store, so 150) plus a EPSi (200) plus say an Alto PA cab (around 300?) gives a total of around 800 bucks, 1000 if you want to go stereo. And this is avoiding buying used...
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Plenty of people using the newer Roland Cubes -- those are modelling amps.
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with my modeling amp, I have tones set up to model Metheny, Pass, Wes, Robben Ford, Allen Holdsworth, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Stevie Ray Vaughan etc.
To do that with tube amps would require many pedals and amps. Plus, i never have to worry about microphonic tubes, blown speakers, etc.
If I like the sound of an alnico 15 watt speaker, I can use the modeled version running huge clean or dirty amp in front of it without worrying about blowing the speaker. Or, I can over or under bias an amp or run EL84 tubes in my Twin Reverb without worry about blowing tubes or output transformers.
It's the wave of the future. IMO, it's 90% of the way there. Most of the folks who claim it isn't couldn't tell the difference in a blindfold test IMO.
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In a live setting with a live band in front of a live audience, nobody can tell the difference. I user an inexpensive Digitech modeling pedal into a Bose compact, get nothing but compliments on the sound from musicians and civilians.
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My major problem with modeling amps is, if they die, you pretty much just have to buy a new one. I had a TC Electronics bass amp that just up and quit one day. An amp tech told me that 99% of the time, it's the motherboard, and it would cost as much to repair as to buy a new one.
Also, modeling amps are products of the age of planned obsoecence. How often does the manufacturer expect you to replace it, and what are they doing to insure that? There are 50+ year old tube amps that are still running great (with proper maintenance, of course).
I've got a little 5 watt Vox modeler that's nice for practice, but I think a good solid state or tube amp is a better bet in the long run.
I think a modeling amp makes sense if you're in a cover band and you need to access a lot of sounds. But most players - jazz players in particular - only use a couple of sounds, and I figure, why buy an imitation when you can get the real thing?
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I'm really curious about modelers, but what keeps me wary is that an analog device can usually be repaired down the line (so far), whereas the hardware on digital devices becomes obsolete so quickly. The buy-in cost seems a bit high for something likely unrepairable, at least without major cost or effort to obtain parts, a few years down the line. It's all disposable now, except for my income. In truth, given the increasing speed of technological advances, I'm a believer that these products should actually be made biodegradable, and designed to disintegrate soon after they've been replaced in the marketplace with higher tech. That would necessitate that they be cheap to buy and likely part of a subscription package, where the consumer gets replacements of higher capabilities as they come out just in time. Either that, or a complete elimination of the user-owned device in favor of a soft solution. We're already moving in that direction, with the major disincentive being the typical anti-consumer terms of service agreement. It's the hammer in the worker's hand conundrum.
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Sorry Boston Joe, apparently we were posting at the same time
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No worries. Speaking for myself, I'm not eager to enter a time when individuals don't own anything, and merely lease the services they need. Imagine that, instead of bringing an amp to a gig, you punch a PIN into the mixer, and your amp profile pops up. Sounds neat, but what happens if you're late on a payment? Or say the amp company has agreements with other companies, and the government - and you didn't pay a parking ticket last month? Sounds far-fetched, but already I can't register my car if my insurance isn't up to date. I'd much rather own and control my own stuff. Originally Posted by aboutIt
Sorry Boston Joe, apparently we were posting at the same time
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I'm 100% with you Boston Joe. 100%.
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