Evolution of the Gibson Johnny Smith

[citizenk74]

What a lovely instrument! Congratulations, and play it in good health!

[Woody Sound]

Congrats on the beautiful JS. I would love to have that shape neck on my JS. The necks on these guitars were very inconsistent. The one you describe is how I think Johnny wanted them to be. Enjoy!

I remember reading an Interview with JS way back, where he criticized Gibson's consistency on the necks. He said "Frankly, I could have done better with a jackknife."

[QAman]

I recently acquired this 1979 JS locally, in almost perfect condition, for a reasonable price. After getting Mark Erlewine to straighten the neck and even out the frets, it sounds and plays like a dream, sooo smooth. The neck is a large wide D profile, which takes a little work to play, but it’s well worth the effort in beautiful acoustic tone. Yes the neck extension is that big solid block, which gives extra sustain to the high range. The spruce top has a nice even grain with no blemishes, while the back is very plain without flames, but has some interesting patterns nonetheless. The fingers tailpiece is original, with the longest finger on the big E, which apparently was reversed on later models. All the MOP inlays are well made & intact. The neck is slightly shorter than the L5C and the body is less deep. I had a 1969 SB JS at one point, for a few years, I can state that other than the tailpiece & trussrod cover (and finish) the two guitars were identical. best regards, jt

Congrats Jerry - its a beauty.

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[skykomishone]

Ditto that! Really a nice Gibson JS! Happy New Guitar Day.

[Max405]

That is a SERIOUSLY beautiful Johnny Smith. Spec’d out EXACTLY the way the master himself set his own Johnny Smith up.
Your hands will conform. Trust me. And if they don’t, mark my words many others will want that guitar. Stick with it.
It doesn’t get better than that.
Thank you for sharing.
Joe D

[gionnio]

I've had a '68 Gibson Johnny Smith Natural for several years. The fingerboard extension (actually the entire guitar) looks like the Buzzy photos posted earlier in this thread. I've never known anything about a possible block underneath the extension and below the top, but I suspect it might be difficult to see via the f-holes.

I recently took mine to a trusted guitar tech for a re-fret. Unfortunately, the truss rod (which I had never attempted to adjust) will not turn. Geoff is going to remove the ebony fingerboard and free up or replace the rod...the equivalent of open heart surgery...which he suspects has been glued tight since day one.

I hope to get it back within the next several weeks, and if pics of the work are available I'll post them or a link here.

In the mean time, please say a little prayer for my guitar. :-)

[archtopeddy]

I live a few miles away from where Johnny Smith had his music store in Colorado Springs. Many of the longtime players who've lived in the area met or knew Johnny. In fact, I had breakfast with Johnny a couple of weeks before he died. Anyway, I remember hearing from local jazz players that Johnny insisted the GJS guitars he sold in his store (afterall, the store has his name on it!) had to be perfect or he'd send them back to Gibson. As a result, there were quite a few impeccable GJS sold in the local area. The other side of the story is that I don't know what happened to the guitars he found less than perfect GJS, but my guess is that they were sold elsewhere.

[Woody Sound]

I've had a '68 Gibson Johnny Smith Natural for several years. The fingerboard extension (actually the entire guitar) looks like the Buzzy photos posted earlier in this thread. I've never known anything about a possible block underneath the extension and below the top, but I suspect it might be difficult to see via the f-holes.

I recently took mine to a trusted guitar tech for a re-fret. Unfortunately, the truss rod (which I had never attempted to adjust) will not turn. Geoff is going to remove the ebony fingerboard and free up or replace the rod...the equivalent of open heart surgery...which he suspects has been glued tight since day one.

I hope to get it back within the next several weeks, and if pics of the work are available I'll post them or a link here.

In the mean time, please say a little prayer for my guitar. :-)

I'd like to see pics of the surgery.

[Jerry Tubb]

That is a SERIOUSLY beautiful Johnny Smith. Spec’d out EXACTLY the way the master himself set his own Johnny Smith up.
Your hands will conform. Trust me. And if they don’t, mark my words many others will want that guitar. Stick with it.
It doesn’t get better than that.
Thank you for sharing.
Joe D

Thanks for the kind words everyone! It’s a real blonde beauty with really great tone.

One thing I’ve noticed is that the “Fingers” tailpiece debuted in 1979 on the JS, with the Longest Finger on the Big E string (like mine) but the next year 1980 and ever since, the Long Finger moved to the 1st String, and the other fingers reversed. Anyone know Why???

Best Regards, Jerry T

[rpjazzguitar]

Thanks for the kind words everyone! It’s a real blonde beauty with really great tone.

One thing I’ve noticed is that the “Fingers” tailpiece debuted in 1979 on the JS, with the Longest Finger on the Big E string (like mine) but the next year 1980 and ever since, the Long Finger moved to the 1st String, and the other fingers reversed. Anyone know Why???

Best Regards, Jerry T

The non vibrating length of string matters, unless it can't slide over the bridge (or nut).

What happens is that when you deflect the string, like to press it down to bend a note, it stretches. The whole string stretches, including the part between bridge and tailpiece. If that distance is, say, a mile long, you won't be able to hear much change in pitch when you try to bend a note. That's because most of the stretching is done in the non vibrating portion. If the string ends at a combination bridge and anchor, virtually all of the stretching is heard as a pitch change. It's not the vibrating length that makes the difference, it's the tension, I think.

So, if you put the extra length on the bass side, if you accidentally deflect the string when playing a note, there won't be much pitch change and it will still sound close to in tune. On the treble side, you'll be able to bend a note up to pitch more easily. Doing it that way would work for my playing. Duane Eddy might have wanted it the other way.

I'm not sure about the stretching involved in simply fretting a note. There would be a minor difference in tension.

Or, am I wrong about any of this?

[Cunamara]

One reason the fingerboard extension is not in contact with the top on most archtops , is that if the neck joint rotates forward even slightly under string tension over the passage of time, this will help to prevent the end of the fingerboard from being driven down into the top and forcing either the top down or the fingerboard the opposite direction. I have always treated the neck extension as part of the neck. I don't know by what means sustain would be increased by neck contact with the body but I suppose it may hold true.

maybe I understand this wrongly, but what I have read is that the neck block also extends out to the end of the fingerboard, which would prevent the fingerboard from being able to drive with the top down under string tension.Otherwise, the neck is a lever pivoting at the joint and would indeed be driving the top down over the years if it was in contact.

[BebopFan]

Here is a picture of the neck extension on a 1969 Gibson Johnny Smith. After the 17th fret a portion of the neck block has been cut out leaving just enough so that the pickup can be mounted.

[Marty Grass]

The thread that refuses to die.

So many years later, I never tire of Johnny's playing. He's just amazing. I've been stunned by his technical mastery. Yet there are times I sense emotion pop through. I wish I could have had dinner with him to understand him personally.

I have had the privilege of talking with people who did know him and built guitars for him. I know he had an incredible work ethic. But I wonder what his personality was like. Did he have a sense of humor?

There is no one in guitar history like him that I know of.

[deacon Mark]

Well I met him once it was a lifetime experience for sure was 18 years old. He liked to fish and fly airplanes as much or better than play the guitar. Yes, he seemed to have a dry sense of humor with realism of someone who had been in New York for a while but got out. I think he like beer too not a bad thing in proper perspective.

To me based on my reading of things over the years he was or course incredibly gifted with a great ear. He also played the Coronet or Trumpet and was one of the finest sight readers the guitar has ever seen. He definitely played jazz even though he humbly said he did not really play jazz. He did not play jazz guitar like Wes Montgomery but it is not a contest just a matter or direction and influences. Django was a big influence I believe too.

As far as his guitars my 2 HJS completely blow away the 2 GJS guitars I have had over the years. That said a great GJS are around you just have to hunt and peck. He seemed like a regular fellow. He wanted out of NY as soon as he could, he said that the only way he could write a method book was going fishing. He said that he threw out a bunch of trout lines from the boat and sat down to write his method book.

The late Ron Eschete told me once while I was talking to him that Johnny Smith was the cleanest, fastest, player ever, and note I said the cleanest fastest, not the fastest.

[Cunamara]

The thread that refuses to die.

So many years later, I never tire of Johnny's playing. He's just amazing. I've been stunned by his technical mastery. Yet there are times I sense emotion pop through. I wish I could have had dinner with him to understand him personally.

I have had the privilege of talking with people who did know him and built guitars for him. I know he had an incredible work ethic. But I wonder what his personality was like. Did he have a sense of humor?

There is no one in guitar history like him that I know of.

If you have not read Lin Flanagan's biography of Johnny, I would recommend it. It's probably the closest those of us who never met him will get to understanding his personality.

[58flame]

Here is a picture of the neck extension on a 1969 Gibson Johnny Smith. After the 17th fret a portion of the neck block has been cut out leaving just enough so that the pickup can be mounted.

My 69 Johnny Smith does not look like this at all. Yes, the neck is narrowed to fit the pickup, but the neck is in contact with the top the entire length. In this photo, you can see daylight under the end of the neck, like an L5 or Super 400.

[skykomishone]

'74 with KA (the JS pu hardware is in the case). I've not seen one with a cantilevered board either.

[deacon Mark]

This is my Heritage JS from 1991 as you can see has the neck glue with extension all the way per Johnny Smith request on his guitars. He wanted the sound especially the highs to transmit from the neck extension. Just for fun I included the picture of the tailpiece, my Heritage has a real Gibson Johnny Smith on it and I assume was done by the original owner many years ago. Huge volume from the guitar it has power and the highs that Smith liked.

[58flame]

1969 Johnny Smith

[gionnio]

I'd like to see pics of the surgery.

I had forgotten about this thread until it was recently revived. No pics, but there was an interesting conclusion to my JS re-fret story.

Geoff decided to try removing just a small rectangular piece of the fretboard above the truss rod to gain access to it and then tapped it. This freed the seized-up rod and allowed him to finish the re-fret. The re-glued ebony is nearly undetectable and my guitar is now fully functional.

[coyote-1]

Having briefly scanned the thread, my thoughts are these: severalgnfthynfthcgnyfj.

Seriously though, on a hollowbody archtop a cantilevered neck would exist in order to allow the top to be as functional a soundboard as possible. Any stuff attached to it will impede its acoustic function. It’s why the pickup is floated; it’s why the pickguard is suspended above the top, and any controls mounted on the pickguard.

Install the pickup in the top? Controls installed in the top? All those interfere with a soundboard top. It’s immaterial on a semi-hollow of course.

[Marty Grass]

Here's my HJS plus size. 18" x 3.5". It seems easy to play.



It's not too hard to change the pickup. I have another one that has the same pickup cover but has a custom built single coil. Kent Armstrong used to swap the innards of the Floating #3 pickup to a hotter humbucker for not too much money. The designer of the original Floating #3 (Ken Rambow) gave Heritage exactly what they wanted though. It uses a lower power magnet so as to capture "subtle frequencies" and not restrict them.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Here is how the fretboard extension on Johnny’s 1955 D’Angelico sits.


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[deacon Mark]

Here is how the fretboard extension on Johnny’s 1955 D’Angelico sits.

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To me it does not look like it is glued down but floats really close to the top. I even looks like at one point it touches the top at the 3rd to last fret. That could be on purpose or just the way the guitar has settled into play after 71 years. My guess is that guitar is warmer sounding and most real Johnny Smith IGIbson. I cannot remember how it sounded, since I played it 47 years ago. Also, please just for me take off the flat wound strings.

[Stringswinger]

Quite interesting that the 55 DA does not have the full contact FB extension that Johnny Smith had Gibson and Heritage do on his signature models.

My Heritage built New Yorker was supposedly based of a 1962 New Yorker and it has the full contact FB extension. Perhaps John D'Angelico started doing this after Johnny's guitar was built and Johnny Smith liked the idea?

I cannot hear much of a difference regarding acoustic resonance and/or sustain between my three guitars built by John D'Angelico that have a floating FB extension, and the Heritage built New Yorker. Sometimes, I think Johnny Smith just liked insisting on some kind of a change to make the guitars that bore his name have some signature input. His dispute with Guild is evidence of that.