evolution of the Gibson Johnny Smith

[JazzNote]

I understand that the Gibson Johnny Smith made it's debut sometime in 1962 and was continued until 1989. Within that period the design went through some changes.


please correct me if i'm wrong with the following:
The jack for a miniplug was replaced with an regular endpin jack in the 80's
The tailpiece which looked similar to an L5's was replaced with a finger tailpiece in the 80's
A two pickup version was added to the catalog in the later 60's


One special feature is the block under the fingerboard tail. It seems that not all Johnny Smith Guitars feature an identical fully solid fingerboard extension. Does anyone know when and why this change of design took place?

Were there any more changes?

[Greentone]

I believe that my 1979 Gibson Catalog shows the Johnny Smith with the fingers tailpiece. I have that blasted catalog somewhere around the house. Hmm?

[Jabberwocky]

I believe that my 1979 Gibson Catalog shows the Johnny Smith with the fingers tailpiece. I have that blasted catalog somewhere around the house. Hmm?

It certainly showed up on the Super V. It had the same S400 headstock as the Johnny Smith.

[Greentone]

FWIW, I think every Gibson Johnny Smith did have a full-length contact between the overhang and the top. It is the LeGrand(e) that modified this feature. I don't believe every Guild Artist Award Johnny Smith had the feature, either. The Heritage Johnny Smith Rose _does_ have it.

[Greentone]

IIRC, the Super-V and the JS had the fingers. The Super-400 and the L-5 did not. Smith really liked the fingers tailpiece a lot. (Me, too. However, it is rude to suggest that my preferences have _any_ weight when compared to Johnny Smith's. After all, he was Johnny Smith.)

[The '79 Catalog was the last one I sent off for as a young man. I started getting them when I was a 12 year-old kid. Harmony and Fender, too.]

[wintermoon]

I'm not aware of the fingerboard extension not being flush w/the top on a Gibson Johnny Smith, but maybe it's successor the Legrande has a raised board? I'm not up on modern guitar specs.

a couple very minor details, the first year Smith's had a thin celluloid sheet over the polepieces in the pickup.
in around 1970 the 'custom' engraved truss rod cover changed to 'Gibson Johnny Smith'.

[Jabberwocky]

Collectors much prefer the L5 tailpiece with the Johnny Smith medallion though. The post-79 JSs are not so highly sought after for that reason.

Surprised that Guild-Benedetto didn't incorporate the Fingers tailpiece in its production of the JSA. It is an ABM Mueller product, not exclusive to Gibson.

Here's a video still of Gregor Hilden with a 79 JS Double pickup:

[JazzNote]

FWIW, I think every Gibson Johnny Smith did have a full-length contact between the overhang and the top.

I thought so too, but did some inquiry about an 68' GJS which turned out not to have full length contact ..... .

[JazzNote]

I'm not aware of the fingerboard extension not being flush w/the top on a Gibson Johnny Smith, but maybe it's successor the Legrande has a raised board?

Yes, all the LeGrand's i have seen have a raised board

[wintermoon]

I thought so too, but did some inquiry about an 68' GJS which turned out not to have full length contact ..... .

that's odd, can you post a link?

[2bornot2bop]

I thought so too, but did some inquiry about an 68' GJS which turned out not to have full length contact ..... .

Yes, all the LeGrand's i have seen have a raised board

So, question to all...What advantages or disadvantages are there to having a raised board, vs having full contact?

[JazzNote]

that's odd, can you post a link?

A forum member went to check out a 1968 GJS at LarkStreetMusic. He sent me a voice memo of his evaluation in which he mentions that the block below the Fingerboard doesn't go through to the edge of it, it is bevelled and he compares its construction there to the LeGrand.

[wintermoon]

that's a beautiful example Buzzy has.
the 'block' it looks like it's tapered a little, but still making contact w/the top all the way.
check the pic @ the bottom left...

[Woody Sound]

Collectors much prefer the L5 tailpiece with the Johnny Smith medallion though. The post-79 JSs are not so highly sought after for that reason.

Understandable, but silly.

[wintermoon]

So, question to all...What advantages or disadvantages are there to having a raised board, vs having full contact?

supposed to increase the sustain w/the neck flush w/the top.
I think Smith spec'd D'Angelico to make his NYer Speciial that way.
Gibson was doing this in 1939 on their top line carved tops and quickly abandonded it.
makes it impossible to add a floating D'armond as well to a '39 in the neck position.
Johnny talked them into reintroducing the feature on his name sake model.

[Woody Sound]

So, question to all...What advantages or disadvantages are there to having a raised board, vs having full contact?

Smith believed that the full block connection under the board provided a more solid connection (obviously) and better sustain in an area that usually has very little sustain. I've owned both the Gibson and Heritage versions, and other archies with suspended fb's, and I agree. It's noticeable, but not significantly.

[2bornot2bop]

Understandable, but silly.

I don't feel it's silly. Do you want a JS with a generic tailpiece that's available on a lot of other guitars, or a tailpiece exclusive to a Gibson...okay, and to some Japanese remake archtops of the 70's?

[2bornot2bop]

supposed to increase the sustain w/the neck flush w/the top.
I think Smith spec'd D'Angelico to make his NYer Speciial that way.
Gibson was doing this in 1939 on their top line carved tops and quickly abandonded it.
makes it impossible to add a floating D'armond as well to a '39 in the neck position.
Johnny talked them into reintroducing the feature on his name sake model.

Smith believed that the full block connection under the board provided a more solid connection (obviously) and better sustain in an area that usually has very little sustain. I've owned both the Gibson and Heritage versions, and other archies with suspended fb's, and I agree. It's noticeable, but not significantly.

Kewl, thanks guys. Mr Wu must have known that when he built my one off with the blocked cupids bow

[JazzNote]

that's a beautiful example Buzzy has.
the 'block' it looks like it's tapered a little, but still making contact w/the top all the way.
check the pic @ the bottom left...

the foto doesn't disclose as much as one could see with the actual instrument in his hands.

[wintermoon]

the foto doesn't disclose as much as one could see with the actual instrument in his hands.

you're absolutley sure it's raised?
how are the p.u. mounting screws attached if that's the case?

[JazzNote]

you're absolutley sure it's raised?
how are the p.u. mounting screws attached if that's the case?

I have no reason not to believe what i was told ..... *
On my old L7 with a raised board the neckmount with screws works well.

edit: *but i can check if i misunderstood something

[Matt Cushman]

One reason the fingerboard extension is not in contact with the top on most archtops , is that if the neck joint rotates forward even slightly under string tension over the passage of time, this will help to prevent the end of the fingerboard from being driven down into the top and forcing either the top down or the fingerboard the opposite direction. I have always treated the neck extension as part of the neck. I don't know by what means sustain would be increased by neck contact with the body but I suppose it may hold true.

[QAman]

Jazz note,
The block I was referring to today in my evaluation was the internal block that resides between upper spruce plate and back maple- not the fingerboard, but rather what's supporting it inside. The GJS and Heritage Johnny Smith both have this internal block running full length of fingerboard. The Larkstreet guitar has an internal block that is set way back towards heel of neck and only resides under approx 50% of fingerboard extension, and is curved / beveled in shape, and unlike any other Johnny Smiths I've seen .

[Greentone]

Wintermoon mentions "flush". That suggests some arrangement like the old 30s Gibson L50, L4 fingerboard, which were indeed flat on the top of the guitar with no suspension. (You can't get a pickup up next to the neck as a consequence.)

The Johnny Smith--even the early ones--had raised fingerboards. Unlike the L-5, however, the Johnny Smith suspension block over the guitar body contacted the fingerboard all the way to the last fret. There is a bit of carved scoop around the sides of the last three frets or so to accept the pickup mounting bracket. Otherwise, the raised fingerboard support is full-length contact with the guitar top--a Johnny Smith request to Gibson.

You can really see it on this '63 Johnny Smith. It has had a different pickup installed (with pickguard mounting--the holes for the neck bracket of the original are still visible.) Notice the full-length support.

[JazzNote]

you're absolutley sure it's raised?
how are the p.u. mounting screws attached if that's the case?

Sorry, so i did misunderstand .....

Jazz note,
The block I was referring to today in my evaluation was the internal block that resides between upper spruce plate and back maple- not the fingerboard, but rather what's supporting it inside. The GJS and Heritage Johnny Smith both have this internal block running full length of fingerboard. The Larkstreet guitar has an internal block that is set way back towards heel of neck and only resides under approx 50% of fingerboard extension, and is curved / beveled in shape, and unlike any other Johnny Smiths I've seen .