Heritage Johnny Smith a Month later..

**Max405** · 07-17-2016, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by sgcim

That was a flawless rendition of Johnny Smith's arrangement of 'Autumn Nocturne'.
You captured every nuance of the Master's performance of that on the 'Foursome II' LP he made on Roost.

Did you use the transcription they were selling at Chord Melody, or did you transcribe it yourself.

In any case, a great tribute to the most musical artist to ever pick up a guitar!

thanks SG. I missed the harmonic after the beautiful run toward he end. I disappointed my son. He said "oh no dad, you gotta do that over. You get it every time".. I printed it from a file I got from here a couple of years ago. I haven't seen it around. It may be the one from chord melody.. I just don't know.
Of course, Johnny is like a saint to me. Joe Pass too. I don't come close to either one of those guys. They had the gene. The gene that makes you great, naturally.
I have Jean too. A pair of Levi's that don't fit anymore..
thanks sgcim. I appreciate it.

**Greentone** · 07-17-2016, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ

I've been looking at Heritage headstocks for a while now and to me the Gibson headstock looks too big. It makes sense that the Heritage angles inward toward the top to accommodate the tuners being more in line with each slot in the nut...
Ya think ??

Attachment 33680

I agree with BigMikeinNJ. But...looking at Patrick2's guitars there, I sure do like the two Unity guitars--second from left and far right. Their headstocks are gorgeous. (Aaron Cowles made all of the top line Gibsons anyway and inspired the Heritage folks, who took their top and back plates to him for tap tuning.)

Dang, Patrick had some nice archtops.

**mr. beaumont** · 07-17-2016, 04:43 PM

Joe, I always like your playing, but I've never liked your tone more than in the OP here.

This is "the guitar." Cool.

**Marty Grass** · 07-17-2016, 05:56 PM

Joe, I compared Autumn Nocturne to your previous recording of I'm Old Fashioned. Maybe you can explain the differences in recording processing. Autumn Nocturne is much clearer and sounds a lot more like Johnny's acoustic playing. A lot! You were playing different Heritage JSs on them, but I don't think that's the explanation at all. And I'm guessing you had TI FW 12s on both.

My guess it's the signal processing, the hotter pickup on your older guitar, or both.

Your technique is a 10 out of 10.

I've never said this before to a player, but in my heart it is justified now: Don't change a thing. You've got your voice where I'm at full attention. Just focus on what you want to say. That's all that's left.

Wow!!! This reminds me of when I was in one of Buddy Rich's jazz clinics. Just speechless.

**Max405** · 07-17-2016, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Joe, I always like your playing, but I've never liked your tone more than in the OP here.
This is "the guitar." Cool.

Jeff, 1st thanks for nice words about my playing. I learned a while back, I have an obligation to make any guitar that I play, sound good. I did a video a while back on my L5wes. I made that guitar sound horrible! It was plinky, compressed and just flat out bad. It turned out to be the effects I was using. From that point on, I made sure I just passed it through clean.
This guitar is very special.

**Max405** · 07-17-2016, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Marty Grass

Joe, I compared Autumn Nocturne to your previous recording of I'm Old Fashioned. Maybe you can explain the differences in recording processing. Autumn Nocturne is much clearer and sounds a lot more like Johnny's acoustic playing. A lot! You were playing different Heritage JSs on them, but I don't think that's the explanation at all. And I'm guessing you had TI FW 12s on both.

My guess it's the signal processing, the hotter pickup on your older guitar, or both.

Your technique is a 10 out of 10.

I've never said this before to a player, but in my heart it is justified now: Don't change a thing. You've got your voice where I'm at full attention. Just focus on what you want to say. That's all that's left.

Wow!!! This reminds me of when I was in one of Buddy Rich's jazz clinics. Just speechless.

MG,
Wow bro. That was beautiful buddy.
I think the difference was in my 1st HJS recording, I mic'd the guitar and sent it through my board, with reverb. The second signal was through the Kent A pickup, through the Zoom, using its own reverb. 2 different reverbs, left and right channels. a Heaven said it sounded like I was playing in a castle. Too much effects and not enough guitar.

We spend our lives seeking the right tone. I honestly think we need to play a single guitar for a while. And learn it. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out what makes the guitar sound good. I got my baby right now and I won't change a thing. I won't even put a rose on the pickguard. I'm afraid I might mess it up.

I can't thank you enough for hooking me up with the seller of this guitar. Patrick told me one time that you are the nations godfather of archtops. This is the second HJS you helped me find. I promise bro, no more help for the Joester. Thank you MG.

**Greentone** · 07-17-2016, 07:26 PM

Re: tap tuning. It's done, of course, on all the great violins. I believe John D'Angelico and Jimmy D'Aquisto both tap tuned their top and back plates on their exquisitely produced instruments. Aaron Cowles tap tuned the plates on the Gibson Citations, Kalamazoo Awards, and the F-5 mandolins at the Gibson Parsons St. factory for years. He continued this practice, when asked, for Heritage. If a Heritage guitar was tap tuned, it was done by Cowles.

What do I think it contributes. I doubt that I am competent to say, for sure. I have played many archtop guitars that were not tap tuned that I believe to be outstanding instruments. _However_, I can say without hesitation that my favorite guitars of all time--my first teacher's D'Angelico Excel, a 1980 Kalamazoo Award I almost purchased (said I would, but chickened out--buc!), and my Unity 100th Anniversary (that Marty Grass used to own)--all were tap tuned. These guitars sound really great.

Honestly, I don't know what the tapping contributes to this process. I do know that the top plate resonates to one note and the back plate to another. What this does, as opposed to having the plates resonate to some random frequencies, is a mystery to me. It does conform, however, with accepted violin/cello family instrument practice. I think that Orville Gibson, Lloyd Loar, and John D'Angelico all had the violin or the cello in mind when they got involved in designing and building arched body carved instruments to be played by guitarists.

Perhaps they should all be tapped, no? Does any archtop sound better than a New Yorker? A '23/'24 L-5? A Citation?

**Greentone** · 07-17-2016, 07:27 PM

MG, how did the American Eagle you had in your possession sound acoustically?

**Marty Grass** · 07-17-2016, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

MG, how did the American Eagle you had in your possession sound acoustically?

You don't need to use past tense, my friend. And it sounds as good as I've ever heard. I put LaBella FW 15s on it, and it's loud with a pretty even frequency spectrum. It has more bottom end than I would have guessed.

The guitar is shallower and shorter than your Unity. But it's in the same league of world class acoustic archtops.

Next string change I'll go to a lighter string with a round core, probably TIs, to add some brightness.

**silverfoxx** · 07-18-2016, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ

I've been looking at Heritage headstocks for a while now and to me the Gibson headstock looks too big. It makes sense that the Heritage angles inward toward the top to accommodate the tuners being more in line with each slot in the nut...
Ya think ??

Attachment 33680

Hi Big Mike,
It does indeed make sense. I had a Gibson Pat Martino some years age which had that very feature,
the straight pull from the tuners through the nut to the bridge is an advantage IMO too, the guitar
also remained in tune far longer than those without it ( wrote this in bold hope it' s better/ for you?
btw I suffer with AMD )

Alan

**iim7V7IM7** · 07-18-2016, 08:55 AM

Luthiers skilled in the art will use different variants of this technique during wood selection, rough carve, bracing and refining the recurve (sometimes known as releasing the channels) after it is attached to the rims. Unlike a flat top set, you can't perform deflection testing to understand stiffness on a 20-25 mm billet.

In simple terms, some luthiers evaluate raw spruce and maple billets that typically are processed to a standard set of starting dimensions by tapping them to hear what pitch they produce. In general, the stiffer the set, the higher the pitch it will produce when tapped. In turn, the stiffer it is, the thinner they can carve it to get it to respond. They also use this type of evaluation during carve and bracing to ensure that they don’t go too thin so the top retains power and projection. If a billet has a lower pitch when tapped and is less stiff, they may leave the plates a bit thicker during carve or go heavier in the bracing profile or change x-brace angle the to retain enough stiffness to avoid guitar becoming "boomy" or "woofy". As you can imagine, this requires a bunch of experience to get a handle around.

So instead of working against hard dimensions like a factories do, they use these types of surrogate evaluation tools to help guide them through voicing the top and back plates based on the properties of the set on their bench. Wood is an incredibly variable material in terms of its density and stiffness. Building to dimensions produces highly variable results. This is partly why we love some guitars of the same model and hate others in my opinion.

**2bornot2bop** · 07-18-2016, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

As you can imagine, this requires a bunch of experience to get a handle around.

Hmmm, so someone with Aaron Cowles particular skill set might qualify?

**Greentone** · 07-18-2016, 11:09 AM

As I understand it, nobody at Gibson/Parsons Street was permitted to tap tune but Cowles. He had the touch. Thus, when Gibson resurrected the mandolin project they gave it to him. Same with the Citation and Kalamazoo Award guitars.

**2bornot2bop** · 07-18-2016, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Greentone

As I understand it, nobody at Gibson/Parsons Street was permitted to tap tune but Cowles. He had the touch. Thus, when Gibson resurrected the mandolin project they gave it to him. Same with the Citation and Kalamazoo Award guitars.

And that makes me all the more curious how or why anyone would be dismissive of a guitar Aaron Cowles had a hand in building? Curious indeed. Thanks for the confirmation GT!

**BigMikeinNJ** · 07-18-2016, 11:29 AM

Hey Joe

**Max405** · 07-18-2016, 11:47 AM

Thanks Mike.
I've watched that probably 8 times. What a gentleman. A world class guy. Like you..
Thanks Buddy.

**Marty Grass** · 07-18-2016, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

As I understand it, nobody at Gibson/Parsons Street was permitted to tap tune but Cowles. He had the touch. Thus, when Gibson resurrected the mandolin project they gave it to him. Same with the Citation and Kalamazoo Award guitars.

This is a bit murky. Aaron did most of the tap tuning. Pete Farmer and Marv Lamb also did some, and they left initials on the braces. Aaron did not.

Aaron assembled the F5 mandolins at his home as piece work for Gibson. The guitar work was done at 225 Parsons St. in Kalamazoo.

**Max405** · 08-13-2016, 12:04 PM

Hi Guys,
Yep, I still have it. And if you check back in 5 years, I will most likely still have it then too.
For the type of music I really love to play, I honestly cannot imagine a better Guitar.
Johnny Smith Guitars have enjoyed a bit of a Renaissance over the past year or so. It is one of the most sought after archtop guitars partly due to its 25" scale, sustain enhancing neck block and its near perfect dimensions.
In my life, I hope to be fortunate enough to own a Gibson Johnny Smith. I can tell you for sure, when I do, this guitar is not going to sold in order to fund the purchase. This Guitar is a keeper. I will be lovingly played and cherished for years to come.
Here's another Video. Its one of the most beautiful melodies ever. The arrangement is from the man himself, the immortal Johnny Smith.

Once again, thank you my friends for enhancing this experience for me. It would still be cool to play and own this Guitar, but I assure you, it wouldn't be as fulfilling without you guys. Thanks.

**Stringswinger** · 08-13-2016, 12:45 PM

Fine playing Joe. I am not sure that a Gibson JS will give you anything that you do not already have. And having played a terrible example of a Gibson JS, I would tell you to be quite careful in chasing that conquest.

I would also advise not selling the DA to fund a Gibson JS. That would be a move guranteed to create some future regrets.

**vinnyv1k** · 08-13-2016, 01:08 PM

Bravo bro ! What a beautiful song perfectly executed. Glad you love your new axe.

**silverfoxx** · 08-13-2016, 01:28 PM

Joe,
Another beautiful rendition , June & I enjoyed
My Romance & a revisit to Night & Day, both
very well executed.. Must concur with Marc
too that you will find it difficult to better the
HJS, although the GJS is your ultimate goal
this guitar really cuts it.
Congrats once again my friend. I can faintly
hear some gnashing of teeth in envy elsewhere.
You can be the new face of Heritage endorsing
their instruments. Gibson beware.

Alan

**sgcim** · 08-13-2016, 01:31 PM

Beautiful! JS is looking down and smiling at your perfect rendition of his genius arrangement.
I saw Don Arnone play the same arrangement, but he didn't have the class to tell the audience that it was Smith's arrangement he was playing.

**QAman** · 08-13-2016, 01:46 PM

Joe,
Beautiful playing as usual my friend. I have that dream guitar waiting for you when your ready.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

**JazzNote** · 08-13-2016, 02:10 PM

Beautiful, i love it!

I downloaded this arrangement a while ago, but already the fourth note in the intro is messing up my mind as i'm not used to play lower notes on higher strings and it repeats again and again......