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Mid 70's with the ugly volute. That guitar was dead acoustically. It was no louder than an ES175. I bet Johnny Smith played a few like that and cringed each time.
Originally Posted by JazzNote
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08-13-2016 02:27 PM
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Stringswinger, Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Perhaps you just had a poor example. I've heard that there are some duds out there , but my 76' mint GJS is superlative and better than a 62',66' and 68' I recently played. Its loud , perfectly balanced and has that fat DA mid range. Amplified it's quiet extraordinary. The volute don't bother me- Citations and famous violins have volutes- I'm more interested in tone and mine has it in spades.Last edited by QAman; 08-13-2016 at 02:47 PM.
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Very nice sound Joe. Thanks. Good job. Keep playing that Johnny Smith man! He played an Epiphone too. Very distinct.
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Joe,
"My Romance" sounds great. The HJS really is your guitar.
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Excellent job as usual.
The burst on your guitar is just outstanding. And I've never heard that pickup deliver the way it does for you. I don't know how to improve on what you got there.
You have a very serious look on your face. You'll never hit the big time on TV until you expand your facial expression range. Try this tutorial. It's actually hard to make these faces while playing decently.
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MG, It's funny you say that about the expressions. On a couple of retakes, I found myself swaying back and forth like Joe Pass did. Midway through the take, I thought to myself, look at this idiot acting like Joe Pass playing a Johnny Smith song.. But yes, I agree I need to show some personality on these videos. But if I did, it would all be an act. Because I'm too busy trying to remember the next fingering of a chord I've never heard of before.
Thanks buddy.
Joe D
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Steve, I have played (and owned) some great mid-70's Gibson archtops with the volute. I am certain that the one I played was indeed one of the duds you have heard existed. Congrats on obtaining one of the good ones. I can't wait to hear Joe D. play it. Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi
Stringswinger,
Perhaps you just had a poor example. I've heard that there are some duds out there , but my 76' mint GJS is superlative and better than a 62',66' and 68' I recently played. Its loud , perfectly balanced and has that fat DA mid range. Amplified it's quiet extraordinary. The volute don't bother me- Citations and famous violins have volutes- I'm more interested in tone and mine has it in spades.
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Between the HJS and the Gibson Solid Formed 17, I don't know which one to pick. As I have said before, it is all you, Joe. The guitar don't [sic] matter. You could be playing my Ibanez SJ500VLS and you would still sound great.
Enjoy your HJS in good health. This one looks better than the last one you sold. I am just happy to see you play it as it is meant to be played.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 08-13-2016 at 04:56 PM.
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Now that i also heard Steve's audioclip of the 76 GSJ i'm more convinced than ever that in the seventies Gibson produced guitars which are at least as good, if not better than the ones from the sixties. Ater a second listening i can say it sounds just gorgeous! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Joe,
I apologize if this post got a bit derailed from the HJS and your gorgeous playing . As I told you a while ago - I love your HJS and keep me on the list should you ever decide to pass it along.
I think one of the beautiful things about this forum is the great people and guitars we all posses - and that we tend to keep these guitars within the forum network when it's time to sell ( I really mean share) . We are only really custodians of these guitars for a short time - and we must enjoy them, talk about them and keep the passion alive. It's what we do !
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Nice job sir! I play many of the same Smith tunes as you do. It' so interesting to see your interpretation as compared to mine. The guitar sounds great. A closer sound to the Legrand than Gibson's JS. If you get a Gibson model one day, you will love it along with the Heritage. They have different voices equally compelling. And the beat goes on....
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Great post Skiboyny.
thats kind of what I thought. The Gibson will have just enough of that Gibson sound and feel in it to warrant having both. I think for me, the thing that I want to experience most is what Stringswinger talks about - in inspiration to play it. Exploring the differences between the instruments will be fun. Someday..
Some of the deviations between the way Johnny played his arrangements and the way I play them is I just flat out can't do it like he did. I simplify a few things so I can remember how to play them for years to come. Frankly, I think Johnny made this stuff too difficult for even him to remember.
Thanks buddy.
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Stevie, No problem at all. Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi
I hope Johnnys sons and his daughter come on here once in a while just see how many times thier legendary dad's name is mentioned.
Sort of like how God made sure all those super sensitive nerve endings were placed in our private parts. He wanted to make sure we kept saying his name too!
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Tempting right? I've heard that these guitars don't travel well. Long trips over water turn them into Telecasters. A good thing to some but a terrible thing to many of us hardcore archtop fans. A short car trip over the George Washington Bridge (if thats even possible), is the perfect trip for this guitar. Originally Posted by JazzNote
JD
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Absolutely gorgeous Joe. You must keep this guitar. It really is perfect for your style and your playing is just so lyrical and sweet. Could listen to it all day long.
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I know your pain my friend. Byrdlands are really good for those bad days. I have my good days, fair days, and bad days guitars. My good day is a L5 with GB14's and my bad day is the Byrdland. Mr. Arthur Itis wants to be my close friend. Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi
Last edited by vinnyv1k; 08-14-2016 at 03:24 PM.
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Back to the OP topic.
My Heritage Johnny Smith is at Heritage now for fret leveling, nut and saddle slotting, and a general light touch jazz set up. It should be done Tuesday. I took it there because one of the guys I know pretty well, and he will give it the attention it needs. Heritage doesn't generally do those kind of maintenance services. The guy is doing it on his own time for me.
It did stir up some conversation. I'm told, off the record, that only about 50 HJS's were made. It seems like there should have been more. I'll get a more solid answer in a couple of days.
One of the Heritage founders mentioned that Johnny did break off his relationship with Gibson because of the high variability in the builds. Unlike many signature artists, Johnny was demanding. I don't think that was meant in a critical way, like he was impossible to please. Clearly the way it was put, Gibson could not consistently get it right.
The relationship with Heritage was much better for some years, then the same criticisms emerged from Johnny, particularly about the inconsistency of the neck carve. Heritage's response was it is not possible to make the exact same configuration each time because the necks are hand rolled. They parted company amicably.
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Thanks MG. This is the only way we could know any of this stuff. We appreciate your insite on what the deal was, directly from the folks who were part of the deal.
Joe D
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There's a tiny bit more info on JS signature guitars on Wikipedia about the history from (in order) Guild, Gibson, Heritage...[edit] and back to Guild. Search Johnny Smith.
I spent late last night web-drifting from the Olympics...to Rio to samba to bossa nova to Jobim to Gilberto to Getz and finally to Johnny Smith! Then fresh off Wikipedia I land in this thread. I need a little lie down now.
But what I have to scream somewhere right this minute is...
Holy crap, the Jazz Samba album -and the famous Desifinado track- was recorded in Adams Morgan in Washington DC!Last edited by macuaig; 08-14-2016 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Benedetto was at Guild/Fender at the time.
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According to Lin Flanagans interview with JS, page 182 of Moonlight in Vermont, " Smith terminated his endorsement with Gibson and entered into an agreement with Heritage. His frustration with Gibsons variance in neck shape may have been resolved, but correspondence between Smith and Gibson indicates that Gibson fell way behind in royalty payments" .
Johnny felt the Heritage was an excellent and consistently built instrument , but was not too crazy about the headstock - but could not persuade Heritage to change it. According to Lin, Johnny was happy until Heritage lost some of its key carvers and foreman. The new personnel brought their preferred working practices with them, and altered his design. On 2001 JS moved the endorsement to Guild.
The aforementioned is contained on page 182 of Lins book.
Sent from my GT-N5110 using TapatalkLast edited by QAman; 08-14-2016 at 05:26 PM.
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have read a few interviews with johnny smith, where he intimates that the gibby js model came about as part of a larger deal to get his then new colorado springs guitar store up and running
here's one version of it- from an interview:
Matt: When you came out here, how long was it until you opened your guitar store?
Johnny: My wife opened it in 1961.
Matt: How did you find it, being a business owner, after so many years as a performer?
Johnny: Well, I wasn’t’ much of a businessman, my wife helped me a lot. So it at least kept me off the streets.
Matt: So it was successful….
Johnny: Not at first. I started off with a consignment of a few guitars and amps from Gibson. That was part of my agreement for the Johnny Smith Guitar. They consigned me a few things and then I started paying it off and buying on my own. So it was several years before I could take money out of the store.
cheers
ps- in the same interview ^ he also comments about the actual build specs of the gjs..starting with " I wasn’t happy with Gibson."...Last edited by Dirk; 05-02-2020 at 05:15 AM.
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Yeah, the Jazz Samba album was a bunch of Washington, DC, guys plus Getz. Keeter Betts was the top bassist in DC at that time. He remained so for many years. He was a double-bass guy. When he needed to play electric for a studio date, he borrowed a bass from a guy who used to be my bassist in a jazz trio.
Charlie Byrd, of course, was the top guitarist in a city that boasted some heavy players. (Think: Roy Buchanan, Danny Gatton, Bill Kirchen, Nils Lofgren, etc.)
The album is a classic. It's where many of us who play jazz guitar cut our teeth learning Bossa Nova.
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not to go too far adrift with the jazz samba lp--but a good read..for them's that care
it was the only "jazz" album to ever go to #1 on the billboard pop charts...ie. it was huge!
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Johnny didn't play on the Jazz Samba album, did he?
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I'm told, off the record, that only about 50 HJS's were made. It seems like there should have been more. I'll get a more solid answer in a couple of days. ( Martys quote)
According to Lin's book , Johnny received his first royalty check of $500 for 10 Johnny Smith Guitars in 1990. Heritage also claimed demand was picking up in Japan. Based on this - it seems highly unlikely that only 40 more were made over 11 years, producing only an additional $2000 royalty in a decade.
Especially from a company that according to your account did not keep records of models produced - only daily totals, of which most were destroyed in subsequent fire. The information your were given - seems inaccurate - as you already suspect.
Additionally, I would think the serial numbers produced in the early part of the agreement would be closer to Johnny's design ,than serial numbers just prior to the Heritage termination- based on my prior post.
Hopefully, the success of this model still leaves enough out their for us to sample.
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