Strap Button on Johnny Smith's 1957 D'Angelico

[edisoned]

I know this thread is 4 years old but I just came upon it while doing some research. Regarding the guitar that Johnny borrowed from John Collins when Johnny's house burned down. I happen to own that guitar, serial #1785 built for John Collins in 1948. I wrote an article about it in the final issue of Just Jazz Guitar Magazine if you want to read the story. Not sure if it's online anywhere. My friend Bruce Oatly purchased the guitar from Johnny when he was moving to Colorado Springs. He owned it till the day he died in 2001 and I purchased it from his estate. I also got Johnny to verify that it was the same guitar. Johnny was a sweetheart of a man and an amazing musician. I think of him every time I play it. Interesting side note is that John Collins died the same month that my friend Bruce did, October 2001.Nice to find some Johnny Smith fans here.

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[wintermoon]

Nice, that's an early cutaway DA, but if you haven't already you might want to remove the off gassing pickguard.

[JazzNote]

Gorgeous!

Would it be possible to post some more photos of the guitar?

Thanks in advance ;-)

[Max405]

Wow! What a piece of history!
You have the guitar that contains one of the most misunderstood stories in the history of Jazz Guitar.
Did Mr Collins want that guitar back? Did Johnny refuse to give it back to him?
Edisoned, I am one of the many Johnny Smith fans here that you speak of. Just seeing a picture of that guitar is a life changer for me. I can’t imagine what it would be like to hold it. Owning it? I absolutely would not be worthy.
I am so glad you reached out to us. Welcome to the forum.
Tell us more. I’d love to read your article.
Johnny is a God to me. Thank you.
Joe D
This might be your guitar..

[dcrowe]

Is this the same guitar with him playing through the Ampeg Fountain of Sound JS-35 amp that was played horizontally?

[Max405]

Dan, how are you buddy? That one has a slightly different pickguard.
JD

[Woody Sound]

I know this thread is 4 years old but I just came upon it while doing some research. Regarding the guitar that Johnny borrowed from John Collins when Johnny's house burned down. I happen to own that guitar, serial #1785 built for John Collins in 1948. I wrote an article about it in the final issue of Just Jazz Guitar Magazine if you want to read the story. Not sure if it's online anywhere. My friend Bruce Oatly purchased the guitar from Johnny when he was moving to Colorado Springs. He owned it till the day he died in 2001 and I purchased it from his estate. I also got Johnny to verify that it was the same guitar. Johnny was a sweetheart of a man and an amazing musician. I think of him every time I play it. Interesting side note is that John Collins died the same month that my friend Bruce did, October 2001.Nice to find some Johnny Smith fans here.
.

Is that an Excel? Or most likely New Yorker?

[Stringswinger]

Is that an Excel? Or most likely New Yorker?

Looks to be an Excel. New Yorkers had more ornate tailpieces and inlays. The headstock would most likely say. It could be a "Special"

[floatingpickup]

Is this the same guitar with him playing through the Ampeg Fountain of Sound JS-35 amp that was played horizontally?

I don’t think that is the same guitar. The one in this picture is a New Yorker, probably Johnny’s 1955 17” New Yorker that he owned after the John Collins guitar. You can see the split block inlays. The John Collins guitar appears be an Excel and you can see the solid block inlays in the recent picture posted by Edisoned.

[Cunamara]

This might be your guitar..

Yep, I think so. Take a close look at the grain of the lower bout in the photo of Johnny playing it and then compare to modern photo.

What an amazing treat to see that this guitar still exists and its whereabouts are known! "Moonlight in Vermont," "Tabu," etc. were played on that instrument.

The other action photo looks like the 1955 New Yorker Special; the neck inlays and the pickguard are different from the Collins guitar.

[wintermoon]

I just noticed the amp laying on it's back in this pic. I guess Smith was using his amps that way before he got the Ampeg Fountain of Sound seen in front of the bass drum in the pic from Birdland. interesting...

[sgcim]

I know this thread is 4 years old but I just came upon it while doing some research. Regarding the guitar that Johnny borrowed from John Collins when Johnny's house burned down. I happen to own that guitar, serial #1785 built for John Collins in 1948. I wrote an article about it in the final issue of Just Jazz Guitar Magazine if you want to read the story. Not sure if it's online anywhere. My friend Bruce Oatly purchased the guitar from Johnny when he was moving to Colorado Springs. He owned it till the day he died in 2001 and I purchased it from his estate. I also got Johnny to verify that it was the same guitar. Johnny was a sweetheart of a man and an amazing musician. I think of him every time I play it. Interesting side note is that John Collins died the same month that my friend Bruce did, October 2001.Nice to find some Johnny Smith fans here.

.

Is that the one he used on the second Foursome album on Roost? That's the way a D'A should look if it's been played as much as JC and JS played it.
Is that the original DeArmond guitar MIC that JS used?

[sgcim]

I don't know if I'm getting that guitar mixed up with the guitar that Hank Risan bought.

[wintermoon]

I don't know if I'm getting that guitar mixed up with the guitar that Hank Risan bought.

the one Hank bought is the one in this pic from Birdland, the '55 NY Special



here he is w/the guitar though he swapped out the tailpiece for an oettinger style, and installed a set of Kluson Sealfast tuners in the video below
Risan put a DA t.p. and a set of 40's Grover Imperials back on it.

[Max405]

I’m kinda hoping this thread doesn’t just end here.
Perhaps the owner of this guitar can tell us more about it.
JD

[deacon Mark]

I don't think Hank Risan hangs around guitar circles much but maybe I am wrong, so probably no information. I have played Johnny's D'a when I visited his shop. Nice guitar for sure although as D'angelico's go sound is in the ears of the player. What Johnny Smith wanted was very different than the players in the late 1930's. Johnny's D'a is much more refined and suited for chord melody in an intimate setting. Not to mention the very smooth electric sound he got on it using flatwound strings. Even the model of D'a made not real different as to sound. John D carved the guitars to sound not necessarily a better carve on a more expensive New Yorker. I had a 1937 Style B I got from Scott Chinery and it was an amazing sounding guitar. Every bit a fine as any D'angelico one could care to own.

Having Johnny Smith's D'a would be the only celebrity guitar I would consider to be worth more money to myself. I could care less if Eric Clapton owned a particular D'a but of course the market see that different. In my own little small world to me............having or playing Johnny Smith's D'a that is SOMETHING. The mystique of Johnny Smith and his guitar playing along with the mystique of a D'a is a hard combination to crack. To put in bluntly it is sort of like the scared scriptures of cool jazz guitar and keeps feeding and reverberation in meaning as the years pass.

[Stringswinger]

I don't think Hank Risan hangs around guitar circles much but maybe I am wrong, so probably no information. I have played Johnny's D'a when I visited his shop. Nice guitar for sure although as D'angelico's go sound is in the ears of the player. What Johnny Smith wanted was very different than the players in the late 1930's. Johnny's D'a is much more refined and suited for chord melody in an intimate setting. Not to mention the very smooth electric sound he got on it using flatwound strings. Even the model of D'a made not real different as to sound. John D carved the guitars to sound not necessarily a better carve on a more expensive New Yorker. I had a 1937 Style B I got from Scott Chinery and it was an amazing sounding guitar. Every bit a fine as any D'angelico one could care to own.

Having Johnny Smith's D'a would be the only celebrity guitar I would consider to be worth more money to myself. I could care less if Eric Clapton owned a particular D'a but of course the market see that different. In my own little small world to me............having or playing Johnny Smith's D'a that is SOMETHING. The mystique of Johnny Smith and his guitar playing along with the mystique of a D'a is a hard combination to crack. To put in bluntly it is sort of like the scared scriptures of cool jazz guitar and keeps feeding and reverberation in meaning as the years pass.

My understanding is that John D'Angelico put the same effort into his Style A and Style B guitars as he did the Excels and New Yorkers. The only thing different about his models was/is the ornamentation and the price. All of his guitars were carved with care and most are very special. My Style A and my Style B sound better to me than my Excel (and the Excel sounds great!).

The bill of sale from Johnny Smith's personal DA has surfaced with another DA that came from Hank Risan's collection. Risan lives here in Santa Cruz, CA and has a less than stellar reputation in the local guitar community. He had some IRS troubles and had to sell many of his amazing guitars to get out of trouble. Did he sell Johnny Smith's DA? That may be as much of a mystery as Joe Pass' 1962 ES-175 . Having seen that bill of sale from the JS DA, I can say that Risan did pay Johnny a premium price for it back in the late 80's.

[Max405]

The thing about guitars that is very interesting is we the players can’t really HEAR what they sound like live when we play them. Your Excel IS an amazing sounding guitar with a balance not found in just any guitar. My wife said it sounds like Angels singing through it. One day I asked my neighbor to play it and I stood in front of him while he was playing. I was blown away by the sound. Your Excel was in the wrong hands when I had it. I put the wrong strings on it and I was afraid to play it.
It’s in the right hands now.
I’d love to know the REAL story behind the Collins/Smith rumor. Was Mr Collins upset that Johnny didn’t want to give him his guitar back?
And as far as me ever buying a Guitar like this.. bad idea. As much as I love Johnny, this guitar would go straight to Cris Mirabella for DNA, mojo and value removal. When I got it back, it would look like a brand new guitar but it will be worth a 1/4 what I paid for it..
Joe D

[Cunamara]

Is that the one he used on the second Foursome album on Roost? That's the way a D'A should look if it's been played as much as JC and JS played it.
Is that the original DeArmond guitar MIC that JS used?

Yes probably to the first question- I think all the famous recordings from 1952-1955 were on this guitar- Moonlight in Vermont, Tabu, etc. Also recordings with Benny Goodman and Dmitri Mitropoulos. According to Lin Flanagan's book, JS had lost his first D'Angelico guitar in March 1951 in the house fire, so probably everything from mid 1951 to January 1955 was recorded using this guitar (through In A Sentimental Mood). Flanagan thought the one that JS had borrowed from John Collins was from the 1930s, but that doesn't match with D'Angelico's known output in terms of design both in ornamentation and the cutaway. The later date in edisoned's post makes more sense.

No probably to the second question; looking at the available photos, at least the control box is different. I think Johnny seemed to prefer the 1100. Edit: let me retract that. His hand is typically obscuring a view of the pickup in photos, but there is at least one of him with that guitar from the headstock end of the instrument and it appears to be that pickup rather than an 1100 (seen in JD's post #44 above).

[Cunamara]

I'd be OK with the OP's D'Angelico, just as it is. There's a bicycling term for old bikes with marks of experience all over 'em: "beausage" as in "beautiful usage." That's what I see in a veteran guitar like JC/JS's D'A.

[Stringswinger]

The thing about guitars that is very interesting is we the players can’t really HEAR what they sound like live when we play them. Your Excel IS an amazing sounding guitar with a balance not found in just any guitar. My wife said it sounds like Angels singing through it. One day I asked my neighbor to play it and I stood in front of him while he was playing. I was blown away by the sound. Your Excel was in the wrong hands when I had it. I put the wrong strings on it and I was afraid to play it.
It’s in the right hands now.

Joe D

JD, I do play the 35 Excel and while I am sure it sounds better in front of it than behind it, it sounds pretty damn good (as do my other two genuine DA's) sitting behind it to be sure!. Like you, I have the wrong strings on it (flatwounds), but I like the way they feel, so it will be the next owner before bronze strings are back on it. I am not afraid to play any of these guitars and have taken all three on gigs. If a ding or scratch happens, so what? Unavoidable battle scars on a guitar are a sign of proper usage, IMO. Part of my stewardship for me, requires sharing these amazing guitars with others. Thanks again for allowing me to be her caretaker.

[citizenk74]

The thing about guitars that is very interesting is we the players can’t really HEAR what they sound like live when we play them. Your Excel IS an amazing sounding guitar with a balance not found in just any guitar. My wife said it sounds like Angels singing through it. One day I asked my neighbor to play it and I stood in front of him while he was playing. I was blown away by the sound. Your Excel was in the wrong hands when I had it. I put the wrong strings on it and I was afraid to play it.
It’s in the right hands now.
I’d love to know the REAL story behind the Collins/Smith rumor. Was Mr Collins upset that Johnny didn’t want to give him his guitar back?
And as far as me ever buying a Guitar like this.. bad idea. As much as I love Johnny, this guitar would go straight to Cris Mirabella for DNA, mojo and value removal. When I got it back, it would look like a brand new guitar but it will be worth a 1/4 what I paid for it..
Joe D

It's like I keep saying, Joe. Acoustic archtops cannot be appreciated by the player because of their projection. That's why it's always good to have guitar-playing friends to remind just how full and bold these wonderful instruments are. Also, mics and recorders and sound systems.

[neatomic]

one of the reasons freddie green held the guitar at such an angle...simply, so he could hear it better




cheers