Metheny and his Slaman at the White House

**Fred Archtop** · 05-01-2016, 02:51 PM

For those of you wondering how Pat is sounding with his DS, it's here. Starts at 41'30", roughly.

International Jazz Day 2016 | United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization

I'm very happy for Daniel Slaman who's now receiving the recognition he deserves.

Best to you.

**JSanta** · 05-01-2016, 02:55 PM

Thanks for sharing! I'm not a big PM fan, but that track is superb!

**NoReply** · 05-01-2016, 03:53 PM

LOL Pat's looked like someone called him on the way to the gig and told him he had to wear a coat, so he stop at Sears.

Great band Pat got to play with, I really like John Beasley the cat has played with everyone including Miles last band.

**mr quick** · 05-01-2016, 04:04 PM

^well put!

I didn't really care for the whole thing. I mean it's a great "outreach" to those not heavily into jazz like some of us, but some of the beauty in Metheny's expressive playing is the buildup which takes a while

**lawson-stone** · 05-01-2016, 04:09 PM

I thought his sound was a little "off." The notes didn't ring with the usual sustain I anticipate from his guitar. I also did not think the vocal was the right timbre for that tune. I love Pat Metheny and am a huge fan, but this was a disappointment to me. David in Saul's armor, as it were.

**Toat** · 05-01-2016, 04:14 PM

PM playing a CC pickup, I fainted. I think I heard some crossover distortion from all those mids getting pushed through that setup. Probably worse PM performance tone I've heard. Look PM you need a humbucker for your tone, I think you realize that now.

**jbucklin** · 05-01-2016, 04:17 PM

I miss the Metheny of yesteryear. His playing seems to have become sort of a caricature of the Pat we all came to love in the 70s, 80's and part of the 90's. To give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wasn't hearing himself very well in this performance. I'm all too familiar with that frustrating situation. I love that tune but the singer ruined it for me, along with Pat's uninspired solo.

**mr quick** · 05-01-2016, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

I miss the Metheny of yesteryear. His playing seems to have become sort of a caricature of the Pat we all came to love in the 70s, 80's and part of the 90's. To give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wasn't hearing himself very well in this performance. I'm all too familiar with that frustrating situation. I love that tune but the singer ruined it for me, along with Pat's uninspired solo.

imo his greatest anything ever is the 2003 jazzbaltica stuff. the whole thing is on youtube, wonderful, wonderful stuff. features an exciting cast; esbjörn svensson, nils landgren, michael brecker, till brönner, and a variety of fantastic european musicians.

I don't think this gig was his type of gig, really. Very commercialized(granted it needed to apply to a broad audience) and I feel like they were probably on time restrictions for improvisation.

**jbucklin** · 05-01-2016, 04:42 PM

I'll check that out Marwin. The only album that I've liked since "Question and Answer" is "The Way Up". And I'm pretty sure Lyle may have had a lot to do with the very high level of composition and the powerful statement and conception of the recording as a whole. I've bought his Unity Band stuff and couldn't get through those albums. I am so tired of hearing his little swoopy glissandos up the treble strings, and then the repeated glisses down the bass strings. It's like every time he does it he's saying, "I'm Pat Metheny, and don't forget it!" All this is coming from one of his biggest, long-time fans.

**mr quick** · 05-01-2016, 05:03 PM

haha, an apt criticism.

**jbucklin** · 05-01-2016, 05:11 PM

Good. I was a little worried about starting any flame wars. I did go see the PMG perform The Way Up in 2005 where he and the group were simply astonishing. I was also amazed that they could all commit such a long, difficult piece of music to memory.

**mr quick** · 05-01-2016, 05:29 PM

no worries, nothing is ever perfect.

...aside from "aja" and "the nightfly", of course

**lawson-stone** · 05-01-2016, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

Good. I was a little worried about starting any flame wars. I did go see the PMG perform The Way Up in 2005 where he and the group were simply astonishing. I was also amazed that they could all commit such a long, difficult piece of music to memory.

I saw one of the first performances of "The Way Up" in Detroit. They were still using charts! But it was exhilarating all the same, played perfectly, with a ton of fire and passion. Then they played a ton of their "greatest hits." Altogether it was almost 4 hours of music, and PM was on stage pretty much the entire time, hardly taking a break.

One thing I'll say for PMG: you get your money's worth. The guy has a work ethic like few I've ever seen in any field of endeavor.

So sure, I didn't like the White House track, but we all have off days, maybe a bad sound system, too restrictive time constraints, whatever. Doesn't change the fact that PM is one of our most significant jazz guitarists, in my view, ever. He's a giant and someone I admire and enjoy.

**fep** · 05-01-2016, 06:32 PM

I love that tune. Too short, especially Metheny's solo. And his tone, not my favorite of the Metheny tones over the years.

**Bluedawg** · 05-01-2016, 07:24 PM

I thought his playing was fine .. .and the guitar sounds good .... I'm just not hearing his usual box of tricks supporting his signature sound

Definitely issues with the mix IMHO and his reverb/delay or whatever he uses were missing .....

For the shortcomings in that video .... I'm blaming requirements for a short tune and not enough time to bring in and set up his usual gear more than any decline in his skills ..... more logistical issues than anything else if you ask me

I've seen him play a few times recently and thought he was playing quite well

**helios** · 05-01-2016, 07:53 PM

I've seen Mr Metheney on a couple of occasions: once in Hartford CT around 1980, and once in Olympia WA several years ago.
I have really liked and appreciated the previously posted demos by forum members here of Mr. Daniel Slaman's work.
I thought the sound was rather thin on PM's solo in this particular video, and I agree that it was not perhaps his best moment, but he has definitely brought new light to the world of jazz guitar in general.

**Greentone** · 05-01-2016, 07:54 PM

There has always been a phenomenon in jazz in which you get some big names together and throw them out on stage to show the public "this is jazz." To the public, it's sort of like seeing exotic animals at the circus--"see the blood sweating hippo..." The gig of that sort is occasionally, but not frequently rewarding for the fans of the artists dragged out on stage. This is sort of sacred ground, but the Jazz At The Philharmonic gigs that Norman Granz organized in the 40s and 50s were like this. He took Nat King Cole, Les Paul, Roy Eldridge, Dizzy Gillespie, Coleman Hawkins, Billie Holliday, and others out on tour for smashup concerts. Nobody was at his best. It's like watching the NBA All-Star game--two non-teams of great players playing pick-up ball.

Generally, you play a chart like "All The Things You Are," or "Oleo." A Changes-based tune like Oleo is perfect for a smashup gig. Everybody knows the head, everybody can solo over the changes.

So, what's all this mean? Pat Metheny is a towering talent. He is best seen with his own band, IMO. Can he hang with luminaries in his field? Heck, yes. Will a Ringling Bros. or JATP gig bring out the best in PM, or any of the stars they trot out? Not hardly.

What we should do in such situations is feel for PM and the rest and be glad that they are out there trying to carry the torch for jazz to the masses.

**jbucklin** · 05-01-2016, 11:03 PM

Good point Greentone. There's one exception to the JATP recordings, however. It's your typical hodgepodge of musicians, as you've described. They play a very uninspired Tea for Two with several soloists going through the motions. But then Lester Young steps up to the microphone and delivers one of the most glowing, lyrical, and perfectly constructed solos I've ever heard. The rhythm section all of a sudden comes to life as Lester leads them with his transcendent phrasing and impeccable swing. Of course the Pres is my absolute favorite jazz musician. He embodied the whole spirit of jazz in my book. I always play better when I've been listening to him a lot.

**jbucklin** · 05-01-2016, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Marwin Moody

no worries, nothing is ever perfect.

...aside from "aja" and "the nightfly", of course

I'll throw "Gaucho" in there as well. It's so perfect that it's almost cold. Very eerie and haunting.

**icr** · 05-01-2016, 11:22 PM

I had been searching for some clips of PM playing that guitar to hear what it sounds like. Now I know...

**targuit** · 05-02-2016, 12:56 AM

To be honest, that is what Pat sounds like without all the crap on his pedal board. I, too, am a longtime Metheny fan, but his characteristic use of all the chorus and delays drenches his sound usually in sustain. And I've gotten tired of it by now even if it is part of his "signature". I agree this was likely a pastiche, and certainly Diane Reeves sounded a bit uncomfortable as well.

**Little Jay** · 05-02-2016, 01:31 AM

Sounds a bit as if he can't hear himself all that well and he's hitting his strings really hard to hear himself? I've heard better tones indeed.

**nick1994** · 05-02-2016, 02:52 AM

i thought sounded pretty good. his sound was a bit off, but didn't sound bad. and his playing was great. the whole event was a pretty tokenistic representation of jazz, but had great players and the performances were pretty good.

**oldane** · 05-02-2016, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

Good point Greentone. There's one exception to the JATP recordings, however. It's your typical hodgepodge of musicians, as you've described. They play a very uninspired Tea for Two with several soloists going through the motions. But then Lester Young steps up to the microphone and delivers one of the most glowing, lyrical, and perfectly constructed solos I've ever heard. The rhythm section all of a sudden comes to life as Lester leads them with his transcendent phrasing and impeccable swing. Of course the Pres is my absolute favorite jazz musician. He embodied the whole spirit of jazz in my book. I always play better when I've been listening to him a lot.

+1 for Lester Young.

Another JATP performance I love is Billie Holiday singing "The Man I Love" with a melting tenderness which still sends chills down my back despite I have heard it numerous times during the last 35 years. Other great moments are Lester Young playing "Embraceable you" and "I can't get started" (on which also Bird played). IMHO, the best JATP effords were the ballads with Lester. The faster tunes tended to get off with tasteless honking and screming (Flip Philips in particular who I find outright awful to listen to).

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