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I finally realize that plywood guitars like the 175 and Barney Kessel speak to me more than the spruce top, carved archtops. So much so that I am selling my solid top guitars.
Just wondering about other plywood guitars and what else would be a good addition to my arsenal along with the 175 and Kessel ? Thinking about an ES300 or 125 or something?
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08-18-2015 08:16 PM
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ES350 is what Barney used, the ES150 of the late 40's/early 50's is a 17" non cut laminated guitar, pretty much a non cut ES350 with more basic aesthetics, I've seen a few of those for sale at very tempting prices.
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are the 150s spruce or maple?
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ES-350 like Tal played for years, maybe? His started with two P-90s and he altered it with a CC in the neck position, which he used for The Swinging Guitar of Tal Farlow. Some of the best tones in jazz guitar history.
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Jack,
Have you played a vintage Epiphone Zephyr Regent?
Check this out:
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I played one years ago, have been tempted to try one recently. Listening to the clips, I think the mini humbuckers are a tad brighter than what I'm looking for.
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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The best laminates for jazz? I'll respond, in terms of Gibson guitars:
1. Gibson ES-350 late 40s, single pickup model
2. Gibson ES-350 early 50s, double pickup model
3. Gibson ES-175 late 40s to early 70s, single pickup
4. Gibson ES-175D mid 50s to present, double pickup
5. Gibson Tal Farlow 60s model (unobtanium), 90s-present, reasonably priced
6. Gibson ES-300 mid 40s to late 40s, single P90
[correction] 6.5 Gibson Howard Roberts Custom early 70s, oval hole single floating pu version of ES-175
7. Gibson ES-150 late 40s
8. Gibson ES-125 early 50s on
9. Gibson Barney Kessel 60s guitar
10. Gibson ES-330; then all the semi-acoustic models.
This is a ranking from most desirable to least desirable. There isn't a _great_ gap here. All the guitars are pretty good. However, the first nine make quite good laminate-body jazz guitars. From #6 up, things are quite good indeed. The 60s Tal Farlow model is probably as good as a 350, but you simply can't afford them. The newer ones, IMO, aren't in the same league as the older ES-350 guitars--but are quite good. ES-175 guitars need no introduction or defense--they have defined one branch of jazz guitar sound for over 60 years.Last edited by Greentone; 08-18-2015 at 09:13 PM.
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ES-125...Martijn Van Iterson...that cat has TONE.
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what year is your 175? I have a 90s 165 and an 64 125. Completely different beast. Neither is "better" but the 165 is more solid sounding .. a better electric guitar. the 125 is woodier and more acoustic sounding (more so that the reissue 59 175)
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Buddy of mine has one, was his grandfather's. Can sound much darker than this. It's a BADASS guitar. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Also gotta mention, the best cheapo lam on the planet...good ol Godin Kingpin.
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my 175 is an '89 but it's decidedly more heavy a build than my '63 kessel. I have played several '57 175s so I know what a real 175 sounds like. Mine is in between . Woodier than a modern 175 but not comparable to your 125. Originally Posted by SamBooka
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i'd love to find an es-125 that someone has had professionally refretted.
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At what point does plywood become laminate? $1500?
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125s make really good jazz guitars. To my ear, they sound like 175s; they just lack some of the parallelograms on the neck and some lack a cutaway. They get the sound, though.
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I played one not too long ago. It sounded fantastic, really nailed the early Jim Hall tone. They seem to pop up quite a bit for $1500-ish. Very tempting. Originally Posted by jzucker
John
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The thing to remember about 125's is they were student level guitars...many have been to hell and back
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My experience has been not so much that as student guitars the been to hell and back, many of them are in good shape because they haven't been gigged since they are student guitars. But as a student level guitar I think Gibson quality control was a little looser than on the professional models. They're more likely to let a bad neck angle get through or twisted neck. 125s are good guitars but you have to watch out for the dogs Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
The thing to remember about 125's is they were student level guitars...many have been to hell and back
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IMHO, the guitar developed by Roger Borys, Jimmy D'Aquisto, and Barry Galbraith, the Borys B-120, represents the state of the art in laminate plywood archtop construction.
Roger supplied the laminate top for Jim Hall's D'Aquisto, and has supplied laminate tops for Linda Manzer's guitars.
I've used my B-120 on hundreds of gigs for the last twelve years or so, and it's never let me down.
I used to have a Barney Kessel Custom for many years, but I can't even listen to the recordings I used that guitar on when I compare them to ones on which I've used the B-120.
There is a reason why great guitarists like Paul Bollenback, Vic Juris, Larry Koonse, Tony DeCaprio, Emily Remler, and many others chose the B-120 over a Gibson.
'Denounce the Dark Lord Gibson this minute brothers, and let a Borys lead you on the road to salvation!!!!'
Amen!
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I played an early 50's ES-150 that had a superb stainless steel refret a few years ago. It was a pretty sweet guitar.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Hi, this is off-topic, but have you tried the new Epiphone ES175 premium? Just wondering your thoughts on this model since you've tried alot of different archtops. Thanks
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I grew up with one. I left it with friends to "take of it" when I went travelling at 18. It definitely went to hell while I was gone. In fact, it went deep enough into hell that it never made it back out. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
The thing to remember about 125's is they were student level guitars...many have been to hell and back
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I've never played one of Roger's guitars but I've heard them up close and they always sounded great. Of course they were also in the hands of some really wonderful players. And those players always had a remarkable passion for their Borys. Tony DeCaprio describes the arrival of his Borys as "a life changing experience". Originally Posted by sgcim
I'm also a bit surprised to not see the Sadowskys mentioned in this thread. They sure seem to have some real fans.Last edited by Jim Soloway; 08-19-2015 at 12:34 PM.
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Hi Jack,
I'll chip in with a plug for the modern range of Japanese-made Gretsches. My special edition Chet Atkins model has the "thunk". If I had $1600 and was in the US, I would buy Grand Wazoo's natural finish Country Club currently being sold on this forum - with roundwounds, you could get into Jesse Van Ruller tones with those dynasonic pickups. Flatwounds and you're in Billy Bean territory.
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That's a NICE Country Club that's up for sale.
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Thats because they are not humbuckers but single coils ! Humbuckers were discovered a decade later. With a simple conversion ring however the gibson mini humbuck will fit right in the same cavity, which was popularized among Epiphone players by Duke Robillard, who used a Zepher DeLuxe Regent as his main guitar for decades Originally Posted by jzucker
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