What are the best plywood guitars?

[Dutchbopper]

Just listen to the recordings. They were playing new instruments back then. They jazz guitarists in the '50s and '60s were not cork-sniffers like we are today. They weren't seeking out the great guitars of the '30s & '40s. They were playing off the shelf instruments so I'd say that aging has little to do with it.

True. Unlike us, these guys were not cork sniffers and played what was available or whatever came their way. Joe Pass recorded his greatest albums with a new guitar that was given to him by a fan after he came out of rehab in 1964. But in rehab he already sounded great on a Fender Jazzmaster (Sounds of Synanon). Go figure.

Tal did not like the L5 much. He wanted a "working man's guitar. Raney played a 150.

Wes sounded equally good on a borrowed 175 as on his L5. Etc. etc.

I think the whole culture of endlessly debating gear and posting pics of shiny archtops on a couch would be wasted on the 50s and 60s masters.

DB

[vinlander]

The good old 50s and 60s without the World Wise Web like TGP

[Dutchbopper]

Hey Vinlander, I see my Tal Farlow in your avatar!

DB

[Greentone]

I think the whole culture of endlessly debating gear and posting pics of shiny archtops on a couch would be wasted on the 50s and 60s masters.

DB

Yeah. They were too busy playing to fool with this pick or that particular archtop...or evan this other amplifier.

[mr. beaumont]

Sometimes the amount of choice we have today can get in the way.

[Greentone]

"Sometimes the amount of choice we have today can get in the way."

Boy, howdy! I used to design and build amplifiers. I remain convinced that having all of the tone sculpting knobs and levers is an open invitation to bad sound. One, or even _no_ tone knobs generally produces the best sound, IMO. I have heard more mis-adjusted Mesa amps with EQ sections than the ones that were adjusted to sound great. By comparison, it was difficult to make the Mesa Subway sound bad.

[6stringjazz]

The Heritage H550 is a great plywood guitar. If you can find one with a mahogany neck, they are awesome!

[jorgemg1984]

Funny is a lot of modern players follow the trend and use modern instruments too. Not all them but a lot.

As for options I believe most of them were picky about what they liked or not but also were forced to adjust to the circumstances. Also playing straight bop requires less gear than playing more contemporary jazz styles.

I agree we have to many choices and that limitations can be a blessing in disguise, in gear or life in general. But some people can get trough the TGP attitude and use all the great gear available today to get excellent sounds that move the genre forward. As an example the use of eq pedals allows lots of contemporary guitar players to adapt to amps on the road. What's important is not getting obsessed with the extensive and affordable gear choice that exists these days.

[Archie]

Just got this from a fellow forum member. Its a beast!!

A 1973 Guild X-500

Perfect for jazz, blues, rockerbilly, country and with the single coil added, it gets very strat sounding.

The bridge has been pinned to the top but literally through the top which you screw down into. This gives it a little bit more sustain, not much but a tad, which is why across the board it performs so well.

Set up is great, neck is super fast and comfortable and its wired to play all pickup configurations.

Two Gibson hum buckers and 1 Bare knuckles, 62 veneer re-issues (I added the single coil as there wasn't one with it)



However, as far as this would have been as an unmodified laminate Jazz guitar, I would have said first class. Very close sounding to an L5. in fact slap bang in between an Es-175 and an L5. The perfect combination

[tonedeaf]

The Heritage 576 that I own is my favorite guitar. Sometimes I feel the only reason I play my solid guitars is because I think I will find the secret to making them sound better that the 576.

[jim dandy]

My preference is a Collings Eastside with parallel bracing.

[sgcim]

I've never played one of Roger's guitars but I've heard them up close and they always sounded great. Of course they were also in the hands of some really wonderful players. And those players always had a remarkable passion for their Borys. Tony DeCaprio describes the arrival of his Borys as "a life changing experience".

I'm also a bit surprised to not see the Sadowskys mentioned in this thread. They sure seem to have some real fans.

Here's a description of how Borys makes his plywood laminates from a Luthier Journal:

Jazz guitarmaker Roger Borys builds highly regarded instruments with laminated ribs and plates. The plates are cold molded out of sheets of veneer and wood glue, pressed between arched male and female molds. Low priced double basses have been made in this manner for decades, and there is a general feeling among bassists that some of these instruments sound very good...

[Archie]

i don't think anyone has said differently. I personally like the '70s, '80s && '90s gibson laminates like the 175s and Tal Farlows but they definitely don't sound anything like a '50s or '60s era laminate. For example, '63 Kessel has *IT*. The '90s Tal Farlow I had sounded good but sounds like a modern guitar. The '89 175 I have is a tweener. Doesn't have the '50s or '60s tone but sounds way better than the '00s era 175s IMO.

I had a 90's Tal you would think could be 60's

[Archtop Guy]

IMHO, the guitar developed by Roger Borys, Jimmy D'Aquisto, and Barry Galbraith, the Borys B-120, represents the state of the art in laminate plywood archtop construction.
Roger supplied the laminate top for Jim Hall's D'Aquisto, and has supplied laminate tops for Linda Manzer's guitars.
I've used my B-120 on hundreds of gigs for the last twelve years or so, and it's never let me down.
I used to have a Barney Kessel Custom for many years, but I can't even listen to the recordings I used that guitar on when I compare them to ones on which I've used the B-120.

There is a reason why great guitarists like Paul Bollenback, Vic Juris, Larry Koonse, Tony DeCaprio, Emily Remler, and many others chose the B-120 over a Gibson.
'Denounce the Dark Lord Gibson this minute brothers, and let a Borys lead you on the road to salvation!!!!'
Amen!

> I'm with you sgcim. Roger has been making these for three decades and they're wonderful.

[dortmundjazzguitar]

the borys and sadowsky sound great but to me they don't have the thunk of a '50s plywood guitar.

Regarding the Godins...Not a fan.

no thunk-mod for the kemper yet?

[Jazz_175]

My preference is a Collings Eastside with parallel bracing.

Do you own or at least tried one?
I own one, with Lollar Humbucker, but I think it is X-braced,

I've just listened to this guy, Alex Goodman, playing an Eastside LC with a CC pickup.
He's really good.

[Danny W.]

IMHO, the guitar developed by Roger Borys, Jimmy D'Aquisto, and Barry Galbraith, the Borys B-120, represents the state of the art in laminate plywood archtop construction.

I've never played one of Roger's guitars but I've heard them up close and they always sounded great. Of course they were also in the hands of some really wonderful players. And those players always had a remarkable passion for their Borys. Tony DeCaprio describes the arrival of his Borys as "a life changing experience".

> I'm with you sgcim. Roger has been making these for three decades and they're wonderful.

Having owned some really nice Gibson laminates, including my beautiful '63 BKC, I have to say that this is the best-sounding laminate I've played. Don't remember about "thunk," but just a gorgeous jazz tone from a small guitar:



When I sold this guitar I had not yet switched to smaller guitars; otherwise, I'd be playing it still.

Also, at the last Winter NAMM I visited, seven or eight years ago, the absolutely best sound I heard was in the Rivera booth, just a guy demoing a Jazz Suprema with his stock Borys B120.

Danny W.

[Greentone]

The Borys might be the best I've played. However, I think--for the record--that the best (in the sense of the most important) plywood guitar ever made surely has to be the Gibson ES-335TD and its stable mates. That guitar has been around for almost 60 years and has been recorded and gigged to the point that we all know its sound, musicians or not.

The 335 is, like the Telecaster, a force of nature.

Do I like it more than the 175, 350, Borys B120, etc? No. Do I bow down before its mighty presence? Absolutely.

[Flat]

History tells the story, for me. More iconic jazz tones made on Gibsons than anythimg, and many of them Gibson laminates. It's not just coincidence.

Absolutely true but in the spirit of fully disclosure, most of those guitars were built from the 40's to the early 60's and bear very little structural resemblance to the laminate guitars Gibson built in most recent eras.

These are both interesting points, and seem true to me. Gibson archtops are definitely the iconic "sound of jazz guitar" in my mind.

On the other hand, it seems we have a lot more options these days. Benedetto, Comins, Campellone and so many more in the fine carved archtop category. Plus the Sadowsky, Heritage, and Collings small shops. And some excellent moderately-priced Eastmans, Peerless, D'A reissues, and others.

I could be wrong. But I bought my first guitar (well, my folks paid) in 1966. It seems like back then we had Gibson, Guild, and the odd Tele if you wanted a quality instrument on which to play jazz

And we had a lot of lesser, hard to play stuff with half-inch action.

Don't we just have a lot more options today?

Of the biggest names in jazz today, how many are playing Gibson archtops? Not Metheny, Frisell, Stern, Rosenwinkel, Scofield.

A ton of cats still are, of course. Kreisberg, Malone, often Burrell. But I don't automatically expect a guy to be playing a Gibson anymore when I walk into a jazz club.

[jim dandy]

Do you own or at least tried one?
I own one, with Lollar Humbucker, but I think it is X-braced,

I've just listened to this guy, Alex Goodman, playing an Eastside LC with a CC pickup.
He's really good.

Nice video, thanks for posting!

I do own the Eastside and it is my favorite/main guitar. I tried Eastsides with both the parallel and the x bracing and I preferred the tone of parallel braced guitar better. All of the Eastsides that I've tried have sounded very nice and I would have been happy with the tone from any of them.