thunk and Gibson Archtop Guitars

[boatheelmusic]

Jimmy Bruno tells a story about how his father taught him jazz guitar. He says his father told him (something like), "you can do this, or you can do that." (I think he was discussing ways of working with II-V-I moves.)

For my money, in jazz electric guitar (mainstream), "you can do this, or you can do that." The L-5CES sound is airy on top and beautifully silky-smooth throughout the sonic range. Overall, it is sublime. However, to my ear, it is not thunky. The ES-350, ES-175, Switchmaster (ES-5), etc., are also gorgeous sounding, but thunky. I am assuming flats on both types of guitars, because I play them on all of my electric archtops.

Both types of jazz tones are completely authentic and viable, as are things like Telecasters, Stratocasters, Les Pauls, ES-335s, and all of the various copies and tribute guitars that have emerged in the last 50 years.

However, when I am playing a ballad, I am generally hearing in my head a Super-400/L-5 sound. When I am playing something more bop influenced, e.g., Alone Together, I am hearing in my head an ES-175 just thunking away.

The reality, though, is that I am probably performing all repertoire on either my Super-V copy (mild thunk), or on my ES-335 (no thunk that I can recall). Both guitars are gorgeous sounding. If I were a hedge fund owner, however, my gigs would be performed on a Super 400 CES or on a vintage ES--350 single pickup (find one of those, these days).

I understood Jimmy's father saying "play one of dese" or "play one of dose" referring to a lick, arpeggio or phrase they understood in common.

[mikeSF]

I'm a huge fan of many of the aforementioned artists who demonstrate a classic thunk sound, and I played a thunky ES-175 for many years, but now it isn't a sound I particularly chase for my own playing. Just throwing out a shout from the non-thunkers, lol. cheers.

[jzucker]

I'm a huge fan of many of the aforementioned artists who demonstrate a classic thunk sound, and I played a thunky ES-175 for many years, but now it isn't a sound I particularly chase for my own playing. Just throwing out a shout from the non-thunkers, lol. cheers.

nothing's wrong with a non-thunker. I love the sound of my Heritage Eagle. It sounds similar to martino's sound on Just Friends. He's using round wound strings on this, .059 - .016

[Greentone]

After _years_ (30+) of heavy thunk, I am a non-thunker now. However, I still deeply respect the thunk.


The Thunker

[Longways to Go]

I actually think there's some thunk in this.

John

I think this is a really nice jazz tone from a strat.
I haven't owned a strat in many years, but this video has me thinking. Hmmmmmm

[Jabberwocky]

I thunk therefore I am.

[jzucker]

I actually think there's some thunk in this.

John

no thunk in that. I love the sound of a strat though.

[kenbennett]

First, some great playing by forum members in this thread! And some great clips of the greats.

I feel that thunk in a guitar is akin to the attack response of pizzacato violins and cellos. That's why I suspect that parallel bracing with it's normally greater punch has a better chance of thunking.

Now I'm excited. My 2nd archtop is almost done. I left the top thicker, because it's quilted maple (which is always flatsawn, and it IS maple, and I left a lot more height in the braces, AND they are parallel braces. This could be a thunk machine.

And I going to call the guy who bought my first one and request a thunk test.

[Stringswinger]

Like Jack said, a Strat is NOT a thunky guitar, though they can sound great for jazz.

I have a steady solo jazz guitar gig on Saturdays which is outdoors on the patio of a wine tasting room. Because it is outdoors, and there is always the danger of a drunk person falling into me, I use a solid body guitar for that gig. Mostly it is my Tele, which is a great jazz guitar with it's neck humbucker. Sometimes, I bring one of my Strats. Guitar players will come up when I am using the Strat and express amazement that I get a great jazz tone out of a Strat.

I just smile and tell them that tone is in the fingers, and when it comes to playing jazz guitar well, the first 30 years are the hardest.

They all seem to walk away looking dejected.....

[LtKojak]

I bring one of my Strats. Guitar players will come up when I am using the Strat and express amazement that I get a great jazz tone out of a Strat.

Chris Standring is the "King of Jazz Tone on a Strat", if you ask me.

tone is in the fingers, and when it comes to playing jazz guitar well, the first 30 years are the hardest

Great fun messing with the heads of the unaware.

[Max405]

Joe,
My late Tutor knew all of the Jazz greats ,and although he attained a
Masters Degree in Music ( specialist subject Jazz ) he regarded his
friend Joe Pass as a musical genius , and who are we to disagree?
I will not indulge in reeling off the names of some the huge stars that
I had the privilege to meet at first hand, all of whom were household
names in the Jazz world. I regret that none of their skills rubbed off on
me, I just remained in awe of them.
I can assure you that you would not have been intimidated or embarrassed
in JP's presence, he was very friendly and witty, and made one feel at ease.
If I had lived in the USA I would have loved to have taken tuition from him.
Anyway ,you're a better player than you thunk ! so come on we want to hear
Night and Day.



Best, Silverfoxx

thank you silverfoxx. I probably would have hit it off with Joe. We both talk with our hands.. And, Especially if he had my stuffed artichokes! As for my playing back then, I can't imagine him appreciating the KISS and Led Zep that I was playing back then.
Im done with night and day. Just trying to decide which guitar I want to play it on. Either a Tal or a nice JP-20!!! I did it last weekend at an outdoor party I played at and it was well received on my Eastman 580! Funny thing, a couple actually requested Here's that rainy day. I was non-too happy to oblige..

[2bornot2bop]

Yeah, Greg. That SE has definitely got the thunk. The body depth and the bracing made that guitar what it is . . . (along with the masters at Heritage) Who ever spec'd that guitar really knew what he was doing. I do miss that one! Heck, I miss the other two SEs I sold too. I also dig that he spec'd the guitar with the frets going out over the FB binding. That guitar plays like a dream.

She plays like I'd imagined an 18" should sound. And what's even more amazing is with TI Bebop 14 rounds she's got a very respectable acoustic voice too. If only she was sunburst

[Max405]

She plays like I'd imagined an 18" should sound. And what's even more amazing is with TI Bebop 14 rounds she's got a very respectable acoustic voice too. If only she was sunburst

14 rounds? Your new name, 2bhercules2bop...

[pingu]

does pat metheny have thunk ?
on the old 175 ?
on the newer ibanez ?

did barney have thunk ?

maybe we're over-thunking this
dunno

[2bornot2bop]

14 rounds? Your new name, 2bhercules2bop...

I coulda swore I thunk there was a JP20 in your future:

https://shop.gryphonstrings.com/products/46170

[Max405]

I coulda swore I thunk there was a JP20 in your future:

https://shop.gryphonstrings.com/products/46170

Thanks bra.. A JP after a Tal...

[Max405]

Thunk?

David, Pasquale has just informed me that I need to practice..
correction - practice won't make a difference. Oh my god he's good.

[John A.]

no thunk in that. I love the sound of a strat though.

I agree it lacks the peecussiveness of true thunk, but the inner strings of this Strat have a very slight touch of almost P90-ness. Thrrough an amp with some guts
(this is a micrcube) I swear it can get surprisingly close to the Bossa Antigua tone.

John

[destinytot]

Thunk?

Love those players and their music, David. I hear thunk in all but the second clip.

Vladan's great definition reminds me of the virtue of imperfection - because that's what we're all working with.

Bebop. Forever.

[Archie]

David, Pasquale has just informed me that I need to practice..
correction - practice won't make a difference. Oh my god he's good.

Yeh i've been following him for a while now, he's definitely top of the class 2015 for me so far.

[Ken Olmstead]

My low point, posting in a thread about "thunk," really??!!

So, if I am understanding "thunk" correctly, my 1980s ES-175 has a fair amount. No as much as the Joe Pass video posted at the beginning by the OP but a satisfying amount. My question is, will I gain additional "thunk" with a ebony bridge as opposed to my Nashville TOM?

Jack, no offense intended and I have been a fan of your youtube stuff for many years! But...if we look at this topic from 10,000 ft, it is pretty amusing!

[Greentone]

J. J. Wiggins is playing bass on the Joe Cohn album. I can remember when he was "Jay Jay" Wiggins, back in 1968. His father was also a bassist. J. J. played on "Arrival of a Young Giant," by the Craig Hundley Trio. Hundley (piano) was a child actor (Star Trek) who was a virtuoso jazz pianist. When he was 15, his trio tied with a San Francisco band named Sly and the Family Stone on a national talent show that was the 1968 equivalent of "America's Got Talent." Each band was given a recording contract as the grand prize for winning first prize in the show.

The Hundley Trio floundered--the novelty was that the oldest guy in the band was Hundley (15). J. J. Wiggins, IIRC, was 12 at the time. Give the album as listen--it's great for kids. The other band...well they played Woodstock and became household names, but who's keeping score?

Wiggins has had a long career in jazz.

[Greentone]

FWIW, Hundley (now Huxley) the kid in the center, is also the guy who invented and played the "blaster beam"--a long metal beam with strings and guitar pickups--on the 1979 Star Trek motion picture. Everyone has heard this sound effect. He also played most of the keyboard/synths on the "Thriller" album by Michael Jackson, and played piano on Sinatra's hit "New York, New York."

[2bornot2bop]

Silverfoxx, that is a great story.
as tough as I was growing up, I would have been intimidated by Joe. If I ever had the chance to meet him, I probably wouldn't even tell him I played, because I wouldn't want to embarrass myself if a guitar ended up in my hands while I was in his presence.
I would love have a jp20 with his original signature on the label. Then, I'd have signed guitars by both of my heroes. Johnny Smith and Joe Pass. Those and the signed boxing gloves I got from Sugar Ray Robinson, I'm all set!!!
Great post. Sorry guys. Back to your thunk stuff ( that I still don't understand)

You'd have liked JP. He was a great story teller and would put the audience at ease with his great sense of humor. I had the privilege of being part of a small group that hung with JP in an after performance dinner in the early 90's. Too bad for me guitar was the last thing from my mind at the time.

[Max405]

You'd have liked JP. He was a great story teller and would put the audience at ease with his great sense of humor. I had the privilege of being part of a small group that hung with JP in an after performance dinner in the early 90's. Too bad for me guitar was the last thing from my mind at the time.

That is Cool. I'm glad he was a good dude. That means he lived a good life.
Guys, its up to us to make sure these legends are not forgotten. I want my sons kids to listen to Joe, Johnny, Wes, Django, Tal, Barney, Fred, Wilma, Betty, Ralph, Alice, Trixie, Norton.. All of them. They can't be forgotten.

JD.