thunk and Gibson Archtop Guitars

**mr. beaumont** · 07-24-2015, 04:41 PM

Since we're talking picks and thunk.

Try decent headphones or speakers...if you listen in your phone tou'll hear too much guitar and not enough amp.

**ESCC** · 07-24-2015, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Since we're talking picks and thunk.

Try decent headphones or speakers...if you listen in your phone tou'll hear too much guitar and not enough amp.

Great pick demo Jeff. It's interesting to me the number of people that will swear by one pick yet change strings and pick-ups trying to capture a certain sound.

I tend to keep 4 or 5 different picks around for altering tone.

**2bornot2bop** · 07-24-2015, 08:45 PM

I will thunk you up!

**Longways to Go** · 07-24-2015, 09:13 PM

So do us fingerstyle players get in on any thunk?

**Patrick2** · 07-24-2015, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

listen to the two clips of Joe Pass and Tal Farlow posted in this thread. That's what thunk is. Wes' tone did not have any thunk for the most part. Thunk is the lower mid thwok that accompanies the note.

Jack . . . you've identified the term *thunk* . . . with the term *thwok*???

I'd love to be with you when you take your car into a dealer to try to explain the noise you hear coming from your tranny. lolololol This could be the beginning of a very entertaining TV commercial.

**Patrick2** · 07-24-2015, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Longways to Go

So do us fingerstyle players get in on any thunk?

No!!

**Patrick2** · 07-24-2015, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

I will thunk you up!

Yeah, Greg. That SE has definitely got the thunk. The body depth and the bracing made that guitar what it is . . . (along with the masters at Heritage) Who ever spec'd that guitar really knew what he was doing. I do miss that one! Heck, I miss the other two SEs I sold too. I also dig that he spec'd the guitar with the frets going out over the FB binding. That guitar plays like a dream.

**Patrick2** · 07-24-2015, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Since we're talking picks and thunk.

Try decent headphones or speakers...if you listen in your phone tou'll hear too much guitar and not enough amp.

The last pick was my favorite.

**Patrick2** · 07-24-2015, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

IMO, they are carrying on the gibson way but their guitars seem to have the feel of a carved '50s gibson archtop. At least my eagle does.

This video by jeff matz demonstrates some thunk out of a 575. Not as much as my gibsons but it's there.

Gotta agree with you here, Zuck. There's some thunk . . . and there's some acoustic. That's basically what I love about the Heritage archies with inset pups.

**Wes Green** · 07-25-2015, 12:41 AM

I equate thunk with the sound envelope/wave, with the spike/thrust/attack/whatever you want to call it coming at the very beginning of the note with a relatively early decay of the note (note: less sustain). More piano like (w/o sustain pedal), staccato horn like if you will. It's all about the midrange. I hear it so clearly in the examples given here w/ TF and JP. Very much a Gibson trait. Of course I also hear it in the Herb Ellis sound, and also in Grant Green's playing. The "bump" or "thunk" is definitely at the beginning of the note. It doesn't bloom as much as a solid wood, thinner sound board instrument. To me it is the sound I love the most, very joyful and lively. It carries through really well in the mix.

**Flat** · 07-25-2015, 02:41 AM

Can you have thunk without at least a little body depth?

Anyone got an example of a thunky Tele or 335?

Maybe you could get some thunk from a hollow ES-330?

Thunkiest Tele I ever heard was a modded T type guitar Les Wise had at GIT. One day a rocker dude in class snuck up to the guitar when Les stepped out of the room for a moment. Dude says "This thing always sounds like an effin tree trunk. Check it out..."

So for a gag, he quickly jacks up the treble, flips to the bridge pickup, rolls the bass off the amp, whatever. Everybody in the room struggles to suppress a chuckle. Les comes back in, picks up the guitar, plays a couple chords. Pure tree-trunk thunk. You just couldn't kill that thunk!! From a Tele! (And who would want to?)

Here's what I think: Thick does not equal thunk, but it's hard to have thunk without a little thick.

**Herbie** · 07-25-2015, 04:00 AM

Interesting discussion for an a) constant novice in jazz guitarism and b) non english speaker!
I have always connected something in Tal's "woody" sound to what would a wooden bridge make for the sound.
No one has talked about the effect of the bridge material to 'thunk'. Has it not any effect?

**Archie** · 07-25-2015, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Herbie

Interesting discussion for an a) constant novice in jazz guitarism and b) non english speaker!
I have always connected something in Tal's "woody" sound to what would a wooden bridge make for the sound.
No one has talked about the effect of the bridge material to 'thunk'. Has it not any effect?

\

Tal Farlo's thunk came from using heavy flat strings, no reverb and his tone setting low or flat.

I'm still not convinced by thunk. Jack said Tal had it in spades but then he said his tap farlow (the same guitar) doesnt have very much.

I dont think its the guitar or the maker, I think its the strings used, the amp settings and the player. Some guitars will be more prone to it tan others, and some not. Some models that are prone to it or known for it, don't always have it.

Sounds like we are almost in tone wood territory again.

**barrymclark** · 07-25-2015, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

The last pick was my favorite.

As was mine. I think that was a Pearse Fast Turtle. Jeff?

**vinlander** · 07-25-2015, 07:41 AM

Fat strings can make an archtop sound thick but not necessarily make it thunk, my Regent for instance even with 15-56 flats has some thick percussive and fast decaying note, but lacks the oinky envelope...
I can confirm that Jack's TF (now mine) thunks, maybe not as much as some 175 or the TF youtube example, but we are talking about recordings also...
What I know is as soon as I plugged in yesterday, even my wife smiled and said it has that "OINK" your other guitars don't have and she is by no means a jazz guitar connoisseur.
Is it Thick + Oink = thunk ? dunno but yeah like someone mentioned these onomatopoeia would make a fun tv commercial

**Jabberwocky** · 07-25-2015, 07:48 AM

Thunk, Thwok, Oink are the new Bim, Bam, Boom.

Thick + Oink = Thoink.

Squeal like a Pig!

**jzucker** · 07-25-2015, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Herbie

Interesting discussion for an a) constant novice in jazz guitarism and b) non english speaker!
I have always connected something in Tal's "woody" sound to what would a wooden bridge make for the sound.
No one has talked about the effect of the bridge material to 'thunk'. Has it not any effect?

not sure but all my gibsons have metal bridges and they thunked. The '57 175 I had for a few days thunked and had a wooden bridge. Played my x-500 again yesterday looking for thunk and it's got almost nothing. Neither does my heritage eagle with a wooden bridge.

**jzucker** · 07-25-2015, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

Tal Farlo's thunk came from using heavy flat strings, no reverb and his tone setting low or flat.

I'm still not convinced by thunk. Jack said Tal had it in spades but then he said his tap farlow (the same guitar) doesnt have very much.

I didn't say that. My tal thunked a lot. Moreso than my kessel or L5. I still think maple is a big contributor to this and so even though I get thunk out of the L5 and Kessel, the maple top gibsons have more thunk.

I dont think its the guitar or the maker, I think its the strings used, the amp settings and the player. Some guitars will be more prone to it tan others, and some not. Some models that are prone to it or known for it, don't always have it.

Sounds like we are almost in tone wood territory again.

disagree 100%, unsurprisingly.

In fact, as I've said a bunch of times, you can hear the thunk acoustically through any of my gibsons. And the pick *may* contribute but they thunk with any pick I have and even with my thumb so I don't think the pick is the major contributor. It's quite obviously the guitar's construction. It's probably something along the lines of vacuum tubes where it's a perceived positive trait ala tube distortion....

**mr. beaumont** · 07-25-2015, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by barrymclark

As was mine. I think that was a Pearse Fast Turtle. Jeff?

Yes, fast turtle.

I think pick matters to a point--some picks can negate thunk because their attack is too soft.

Anybody have a video of thumb thunk? I believe it could happen, but i don't think i've heard it.

**Woody Sound** · 07-25-2015, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

starting 20 seconds in

Yeah, I'm glad that guitar is not the bruise-burst one

**mr. beaumont** · 07-25-2015, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

starting 20 seconds in

Great tone, but brighter and more "acoustic" that what i'd usually call thunk...perhaps there are different flavors...

**Max405** · 07-25-2015, 10:15 AM

Is this thunk? I always thought it was.

**mikeSF** · 07-25-2015, 10:20 AM

Someone consult the manual...

thunk and Gibson Archtop Guitars-thunks-jpg

**jads57** · 07-25-2015, 10:34 AM

Just a thought but the Tal farlow recording of "Autumn in N.Y." sounds like flatwounds and a wooden bridge. The attack is up front and very little sustain.