Gibson discontinues regular ES-175

[Danny W.]

Well I respect you Danny as a working musician and I don't wanna carry on with this 'bashing' I've done it enough already (on this thread lol).

That's really my point--not everyone will have your experience, nor will they have mine. I don't jump into thread after thread claiming they'll have mine and you don't have to either.

The only time in history I saw more than their share of guitars arriving at the dealer needing work, was the Norlin period. But even those have a much greater return on investment than knockoffs. Those were Gibson's dark days. Yet, they still kicked out a much higher percentage of good guitars from the factory than Fender does today or has ever. Talk about guitars that need a major overhaul from the moment they get dropped on the loading dock...

By the end of the Norlin era I had mostly given up on Gibson, but they really came back in the early '90's

I guess if I experienced the problems Danny W mentioned he had with his Gibsons, I would not consider myself lucky. Warranty or not.

If you bought 6 guitars and all 6 had those problems .... I would agree ..

But Danny's experience was 6 out of 150 ..... that's a 4% failure rate .... and the company took care of him in those instances

A 4% failure rate ain't to bad for products made of wood .... epsecially if the warranty fixes the problem


If you buy 150 if any product ... you're going to find a few with problems

ESPECIALLY, since most of those issues could easily have been chalked up not to manufacturing/materials failures, but to environmental issues.

Bob

yes, especially on sixteen-and thirty-year-old guitars that have spent thirteen years in the desert after several years in the tropics.

All right all all you math majors. You can't start throwing stats around without someone crying foul. Unless you can account for the failure rate of the number of Gibsons out of the 150 he no longer owned your 4% failure rate is BS.

Actually, you should work on your understanding of how such statistics are applied. Sooner or later everything fails, so you have to put a time window around your numbers. I owned most of those guitars for far longer than the normal warranty period of a typical household product. Consumer Reports has stated that their member surveys show failure rates on most consumer items run 5% or more (sometimes much more) during the warranty period, which is generally just a year. In my case I owned most of those guitars ten years or more, so the failure rate was really extraordinarily low. While it's hard to compare guitars to washing machines, the fact is that most things people buy that are more complex than a kitchen knife would have had many more failures if you had 150 of them even for a short time.

Of my six guitars that needed fixing, three of them actually were perfectly playable at Gibson's standard factory action, which is, unfortunately, higher than I'm comfortable with. Two of them were not under warranty because I had bought them used, but Gibson fixed the '68 JS under warranty even though it met Gibson's spec, because I told them I needed the action to be lower than the slight uptilt at the end of the neck would allow.

Danny W.

[mikeSF]

IMO, Gibson already made all the good guitars they'll ever make. Fortunately, there are plenty out there so why waste time with all this new crap they are spewing out?

[fumblefingers]

IMO, Gibson already made all the good guitars they'll ever make. Fortunately, there are plenty out there so why waste time with all this new crap they are spewing out?

don't know why you think that. they had some cool acoustic (now vintage) archtops, i'll admit that!

but i've spent $75K on their new archtops, semi-hollows, and one acoustic since 2007 and observe that their guitars are more beautiful, functional, and better than ever.

wouldn't mind some PAF pickups though, I'll admit.

[Archie]

That's really my point--not everyone will have your experience, nor will they have mine. I don't jump into thread after thread claiming they'll have mine and you don't have to either.

Danny W.

To be honest Danny if they didn't make it so easy for me, I wouldn't keep dong it (Gibson that is).

Besides pretty sure I let a few slip by without comment, in consideration of NGD's etc. In fact I think there is about 5 Gibson threads on the front page I haven't commented on at all and a couple with only one post.

Thanks for your concern though.

[jazzalta]

I have had 2 ES175's in the past, both had quality control issues that were bad enough for me to get rid of them. However, I would not hesitate to buy a used one if I had the money now, and if I could cherry pick through them. My favourite jazz guitarist is Joe Pass, and that sound that comes out of his guitar is heavenly.

[peskypesky]

Gibson ES-175s and Eastman clone

[Bluedawg]

Interesting comparison ...

they certainly lived up the name Treblerock ... I thought they amp settings were a little bright for my tastes with a solo archtop

I would have like to hear more chord work and less noodling

The Eastman sounds nice ....

If I had the dough for a Gibson I'd still want to play them myself before buying

If I didn't, the Eastman would probably do

[Dennis D]

that's cool if you want one that doesn't sound like a 175, lol

OR

You could buy an L-4. Worst case they're even money, could very well be less, are built with better components and most will say have a better sound.

Of course

MHO

[mr. beaumont]

Better, i dunno--subjective.

But I can tell ya while they look a whole lot alike, an L4 sounds very different from a 175.

[Dennis D]

Better, i dunno--subjective.

But I can tell ya while they look a whole lot alike, an L4 sounds very different from a 175.

It sure does.

I started on a '60's 175, and now own an '80's L-4.

You can probably play around with an L-4 enough to make it sound like a 175 -- if you really had to have that muffled tone.

But in its dreams a 175 is never going to sound like an L-4. The laminated top 175 can't get the sound of the solid top and ebony fingerboard L-4.

The real point here is the market likes 175's and if you look around enough, you may very well get more bang for your buck if you find an L-4.

Again, MHO

[sierra trekker]

I had a new 1959 Historic VOS ES 175 (bought in 2014) that had a neck problem so I sent it back to them to fix under warranty. They tried and were unable to fix it so they sent me a new current model. Same sequence in Serial numbers but now they acknowledge that they are made in Memphis and are not custom shop, although they are priced the same.

Bottom line, much better than the previous model in terms of quality and I like the new pick-ups. Looks And sounds like a vintage ES175. Only downside is that the case is not as well made.

BTW, Gibson customer service was very good......took a while (4 months) but they did come through.

[Jazz_175]

I had a new 1959 Historic VOS ES 175 (bought in 2014) that had a neck problem so I sent it back to them to fix under warranty. They tried and were unable to fix it so they sent me a new current model. Same sequence in Serial numbers but now they acknowledge that they are made in Memphis and are not custom shop, although they are priced the same.

Bottom line, much better than the previous model in terms of quality and I like the new pick-ups. Looks And sounds like a vintage ES175. Only downside is that the case is not as well made.

BTW, Gibson customer service was very good......took a while (4 months) but they did come through.

What kind of neck problem the guitar had?

[sierra trekker]

It had a small hump where the neck meets the body and no matter how much they tried to flatten it, it still buzzed. They decided that it wasn't worth any more effort and gave up.

[Jabberwocky]

It had a small hump where the neck meets the body and no matter how much they tried to flatten it, it still buzzed. They decided that it wasn't worth any more effort and gave up.

The dealer didn't catch the problem and sent it to you?

Why not go factory direct and save ourselves the dealer's markup if he doesn't have our back?

What a bit of bother it must have been, sierra trekker.

[sierra trekker]

Yes, I bought it as soon as it showed up on their website. They shipped it next day.....Not sure how much they inspected it before shipping but have never received a bad guitar from them before. my mistake for not notifying them sooner ( 4 months) and they said that it had been too long and that I would have to go through Gibson, so I did.

Probably should notify them now as to the results do that it doesn't happen to someone else.

[oldane]

But in its dreams a 175 is never going to sound like an L-4. The laminated top 175 can't get the sound of the solid top and ebony fingerboard L-4.

If we talk about amplified tone, IMHO it has jus as much to to with the different placement of the neck PU as it has to to with the top and fingerboard material. On the L4 the neck PU is farther from the bridge than on the 175. BTW, it was the same thing with Joe Pass' last custom 175 which had the PU in the same place as on the L4. The sound was more mellow, spread an "L5 like" than on a stock 175.

[m_d]

Yeah, but... The claim that nothing can touch a great 175 still doesn't make sense to me given Gibson's QC issues. Statistically makers with no such issues are much more likely to turn out great instruments. Does Gibson have a magic recipe which works only part of the time, yet which other makers have not been able to understand?

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah, but... The claim that nothing can touch a great 175 still doesn't make sense to me given Gibson's QC issues. Statistically makers with no such issues are much more likely to turn out great instruments. Does Gibson have a magic recipe which works only part of the time, yet which other makers have not been able to understand?

Not every ES-175 turned out by Gibson is great. When the stars in the heavens align, a great ES-175 is, well, a great ES-175. You just have to find one. I would not say that nothing can touch a great ES-175; the Collings Eastside LC is pretty great as is the Sadowsky Jim Hall in their own ways. It is like a family with 3 pretty daughters*.

I have a 2006 ES-175 Natural with P90s that sounds pretty great. But I'd say that, of course.

*I must not forget to mention the Heritage 575 but I did. Great in its own way. So, a family with 3 pretty daughters and a red-headed pretty cousin.

[newsense]

Could you please list any other guitar builders who build as many guitars as Gibson does, who operate on a sclale even close to Gibson's . . . who are devoid of QC issues?

Godin ?

[339 in june]

Godin ?

Godin ... as many as Gibson ????

[Jabberwocky]

Current Made in Japan ES-175 types which are very good ("great" is a minefield):

Tokai FA-235.

Seventy-seven Guitars Fat Hawk.

Walkin Guitars various Archtop Tributes.

[newsense]

Godin ... as many as Gibson ????

It has been said elsewhere on the forum that Godin is now the largest guitar manufacturer in North America. I haven't been able to verify this fact, but of course, I believe everything I read on the forum, so I was just throwing this suggestion in for further comment

[Jabberwocky]

If we talk about amplified tone, IMHO it has jus as much to to with the different placement of the neck PU as it has to to with the top and fingerboard material. On the L4 the neck PU is farther from the bridge than on the 175. BTW, it was the same thing with Joe Pass' last custom 175 which had the PU in the same place as on the L4. The sound was more mellow, spread an "L5 like" than on a stock 175.

oldane, the ES-775 is essentially that: an L-4CES with a laminated maple top, back and rim, and neck. Joe Pass' custom ES-175 appeared to be a single neck pup thinline ES-775.

Do you have any thoughts about the ES-775?

[339 in june]

It has been said elsewhere on the forum that Godin is now the largest guitar manufacturer in North America. I haven't been able to verify this fact, but of course, I believe everything I read on the forum, so I was just throwing this suggestion in for further comment

I'm trying to find the true figures, but unsuccesful up to now
Just found that Godin produce 2 000 guitars a week
If someone can find the figures for Gibson, we'll know and get back to the topic .... or shall we start a new thread ?

[oldane]

oldane, the ES-775 is essentially that: an L-4CES with a laminated maple top, back and rim, and neck. Joe Pass' custom ES-175 appeared to be a single neck pup thinline ES-775.

Do you have any thoughts about the ES-775?

I have never touched an ES 775 or seen one in real life, so no, I haven't any thoughts about it. I just know that I - and many others - find that Joe Pass sounded better with that custom 175 (775 less the cosmetics?) than with his first 175 from the 1960's and especially than with his Ibanez JP20 (where the PU was even closer to the bridge). Like I said, I think the PU placement plays a role here - but then, PU placement is a pet subject of mine.