Gibson discontinues regular ES-175

[Patrick2]

I'm trying to find the true figures, but unsuccesful up to now
Just found that Godin produce 2 000 guitars a week
If someone can find the figures for Gibson, we'll know and get back to the topic .... or shall we start a new thread ?

" Closely held Gibson, founded in 1894, says it produces more than 160,000 guitars annually in Nashville and has almost $500 million in revenue. It’s the country’s second-largest guitar maker after Scottsdale, Arizona-based Fender Musical Instruments Corp., according to The Music Trades, a publication that covers the industry."

These are just Nashville TN totals. Doesn't take Boseman into consideration. Fender is larger in sales revenues due to its subsideray companies . . not due to total guitar production.

[fumblefingers]

Godin doesn't make the same kind of product of course...

[m_d]

My guitar ownership experience is too limited to answer that. My spontaneous answer would be, don't bite more than you can chew, if you can't deliver the consistently high quality your clients rightfully expect at those prices. And I still wonder, isn't Gibson 's custom shop operation roughly comparable in size to, say, Collings as a whole ? If so, what might be their problem? Lack of top-notch workers in sufficient numbers? I'm aware those are increasingly hard to find in the field. Whatever the case may be, all I know is if I'm on the market for a really high-end archtop one day, Gibson probably won't top my list. I will look at Guild and Collings, and even Eastman and Ibanez first.

Could you please list any other guitar builders who build as many guitars as Gibson does, who operate on a sclale even close to Gibson's . . . who are devoid of QC issues? We hear many reports here on JGF as well as other forums of people who have bad experiences with some of Gibson's guitars. What's missing from this exposure, are the thousands (tens of thousands??) of Gibson guitars that are free of any poor quality issues. I've asked this question before and I'll ask it again; do any of those complaining about Gibson's poor QC know how many guitars Gibson turns out annually? If so, do any know of the number or statistics related to their percentage of warranty issues?

The claim that nothing can touch a great 175 is totally true . . . as it relates to any other guitar trying to be a 175. To be sure, there's no doubt that there are countless better guitars out there . . some less expensive, some more expensive. But, they're not the equivalent of a great 175 . . when trying to be compared to a great 175, for what it is and was intended to be.

[Bluedawg]

My guitar ownership experience is too limited to answer that. My spontaneous answer would be, don't bite more than you can chew, if you can't deliver the consistently high quality your clients rightfully expect at those prices. And I still wonder, isn't Gibson 's custom shop operation roughly comparable in size to, say, Collings as a whole ? If so, what might be their problem? Lack of top-notch workers in sufficient numbers? I'm aware those are increasingly hard to find in the field. Whatever the case may be, all I know is if I'm on the market for a really high-end archtop one day, Gibson probably won't top my list. I will look at Guild and Collings, and even Eastman and Ibanez first.

You may be right about the size of Gibsons custom shop ....

But IMHO the custom shop doesn't really have a QC issue, certainly not on any large scale ... what I've seen of there stuff has all been excellent

I've seen some serious issues reported for Gibsons .... but most of the complaints on the internet center around things that would be taken care of by a decent set up ... Gibson just doesn't put much effort into the factory set ups


The Custom Shop prices are kind of scary ..... but if you look at buying a new Collings archtop .... you might not find Gibsons prices to be so bad

[Hammertone]

...And I still wonder, isn't Gibson 's custom shop operation roughly comparable in size to, say, Collings as a whole ?...

Not even close.
Gibson's Custom Shop Factory in Nashville is significantly larger than Collings and produces many more guitars.

[Stringswinger]

I own 21 guitars including two vintage D'Angelicos, a Benedetto, An L-5 Wes and a Super 400. I also have 2 Gibby ES-175's in the collection, a 63 and a 97. Over the years I have owned and sold several 175's, a 68, a 1970, a 1977, a 1982 and a 2006. I have played countless others. Some are great, some not so great. I have played a few Benedettos and vintage D'Angelicos that were not so great.

Every piece of wood is different, so each guitar sounds different. Plus proper matching of amplifier and chord and proper setup enter into the mix. Then there is personal taste...

My favorite "go to" guitar in my arsenal is my 97 ES-175. It is far from my most valuable guitar, but it plays great and the sound (through a Polytone Head and a Raezer's Edge cab) works just fine for me...Doesn't get any better in fact.

Yes, some Gibsons should never have left the factory without some repair work and they are expensive (new)..but the best things in life usually cost a bit. For those of us who dig the sound of Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, Jim Hall or Pat Metheny, it can take a genuine Gibson ES-175 to make us happy.

If you are happy playing Chinese made guitars like the Eastmans or Ibanez Artcores...good for you. But slamming Gibson, the ES-175 or those of us who play them is small minded to say the least.

I'll stick with my 175. It's what's right for me. End of story.

Cheers, Marc
www.hotclubpacific.com

[jim dandy]

I usually don't get involved in posts like this, but I'll add my experience last year looking for a Gibson ES-175 Historic 1959 Reissue. I went to one of the larger retailers that had 6 in stock and I played all of them. These are the only examples of this model I have had a chance to spend enough time with to really evaluate. Of the 6, 4 had noticeable QC problems. From memory, one had a neck carve that wasn't rounded over completely and had a prominent ridge running down the back of the neck for the span of about 5 frets, one had a hump in the neck where the neck met the body, one had a couple of high frets, and one had a particularly sticky soft gummy finish on the back of the neck. All of them had the usually poorly cut nut and needed set ups, but I expect that with pretty much any new guitar. These guitars were stored in their factory boxes in the back warehouse and were not being abused out on the rack.

[m_d]

m_d; please let me turn the question around to you. "What might be Their problem?" . . in your estimation? Might I assume that you're seen a few Gibson Custom Shop guitars with quality issues? Hve you sampled 200 of them and found 20 0r 30 to be defective in one way or another? I highly doubt it. I purchased 7 of them. Not a single problem with any of them. In my travels to and visits with guitar shops, I've probably sampled over 50. I found one L5 Wes that was litterally an embarrassment . . and 2 R9s with very minor binding issues. Collectively, Nashville and Memphis produce quite a few guitars every day . . not just 10 or 20. How many do you actually think went out with issues, big or small?

By the way, I've also sampled 2 Guild Artist Awards with off center tail pieces . . . and early offerings of Eastmans that were . . . *interesting*, to say the least. In big high volume production companies . . . shit happens.

You're correct in identifying your answer as spontaneous.

Please refer to jim dandy's assessment below. I've seen a dozen like it. It isn't an issue with a few bashers from across the pond. It isn't an issue of me hating Gibson, which i don't, but of Gibson living up to its name. Add to that the upcharge we typically get here on some brands, and a Gibson is out of the question.

[Patrick2]

Well then m_d and jim dandy . . . there ya have it!! Gibson is sending most of their turds across the ponds.

I haven't seen a dozen bad 175s in the past 35 years of playing and collecting arch tops here in the USA. I think danny W. has one or two Gibson arch tops laying around his home as well. I wonder how many turds he's had to go through before he found a few keepers.?.?

[Jazz_175]

Well, It seems that Gibson has really such a bad reputation of making, let's say, overpriced guitars. As if you pay too much for what you get.
I recently traded an Ibanez J.Satriani, which I was not using at all, for another guitar.
At the guitar shop, where they sell Gibson, Fender, PRS, Surh, Tom Anderson etc....one of the guys working there stated: "I would avoid Gibson or Fender. They don't make guitars because they really want to make nice instruments, but only because they want to make money."
A tech guy working at the same shop once said about Gibson " They (Gibson) just use whatever piece of wood they come across".

It is not my intention to bash Gibson, I am just reporting what I heard.
In the end I traded the Ibanez for a PRS Custom 22, but not because of what the guy working at the shop said.

I already own three Gibson guitars, 335, 347, 175, and want more Gibsons.
And, why not, I'd also like a Heritage 575 and a 535.

[Stringswinger]

Out of 21 guitars in my collection, 6 of them are Gibsons. Gibsons just feel right to me. And there are 3 Fenders. Gibson and Fender make up almost half of my guitars. Gibson and Fender are the two most successful guitar makers ever. Success breeds envy. And envy breeds contempt.

I will not only keep my Gibson's and Fenders, I will still tell guitarists to buy them. From an investment/resale point of view, Gibson, Fender (and Martin) are the best.

I have played many new Gibsons in stores and they all have seemed OK to me, just too expensive (so I only buy them used).

I am going to go out on a limb here and posit that most of the guys who bash Gibson guitars cannot afford them.

[fumblefingers]

yikes, maybe the 175 should be discontinued. we should start a thread about that.

OTOH, the more expensive models seem OK. especially if you order them to be made. and they're less expensive than Benedetto's or Buscarino's (both of whom I love, and own). Eastman and Ibanez archtops should never be compared to the same type model from Gibson.

finally,

scattershooting while pondering... are Fender's really guitars?

[Klatu]

yikes, maybe the 175 should be discontinued. we should start a thread about that.

OTOH, the more expensive models seem OK. especially if you order them to be made. and they're less expensive than Benedetto's or Buscarino's (both of whom I love, and own). Eastman and Ibanez archtops should never be compared to the same type model from Gibson.

finally,

scattershooting while pondering... are Fender's really guitars?

I don't know how much experience you've had with Eastman guitars, but there are terrific guitars in their lineup regardless of price. I have a John Pisano model and 810 that are every bit the guitars that my Heritage Golden Eagles are.

As for Gibson, I've played more of them down in here in South Florida than I can remember and can't recall any egregious quality control issues.