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Many years ago, I changed both the input and output transformers to good old British transformers, I've build quite a few amps over the years and I've still got a few transformers in the shed for my next project, whenever I've get the time, I'm sure the day had more hours when I was younger.
Originally Posted by jzucker
Jack, basically, unintentionally, I've rebuilt the whole of my Fender Deluxe Reverb amp.
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05-18-2014 10:37 AM
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i didn't know the brits made any 6L6 transformers. I've used the blackface bassman power and output transformers in quite a few mods and it greatly improves things but I can get them at cost and do the work myself so it saves money.
OTOH, i don't want to spend another minute working on tube amps, lol.
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Yes, the British can still make transformers of all types, it's just a matter of the correct primary and secondary windings. Originally Posted by jzucker
Michael Faraday's experiment 1830's?
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I have a 65 DRRI that I picked up with the intention to use it for jazz gigs. My Blues Jr never had a problem staying clean at gig volumes so I figured with a few extra watts the DRRI would have no problem. Mine has a cannabis rex speaker in it and starts to distort between 4 and 5 on the knob with my tele. It's not particularly loud at 4 though. It struggles in small group rehearsals. I haven't tried it on a gig except for some smaller duo stuff as it seems like it wouldn't cut it. Does this jive with others' experiences or perhaps something is wrong with my amp?
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Mine is the same way. Consistently, I get distortion just after 4.5 or so on the volume dial (at least with Channel II, I really did not mess with Channel I much).
I tried going to a cooler running preamp tube set-up, and I changed the speaker to a Weber BF150. Now, I might get to 4.7 or so before I my ears hear the same level of distortion creeping into my chords. I don't think this was much of an improvement and could be placebo.
I have not used it in a year or so and now that I know more about the amp and guitar controls, I am itching to try more combinations of guitar volume knob, different amp channels and different know positions.
I used a Gibson ES-175 and an Epiphone Sheraton II when I was testing the amp.
It does not seem to be that loud to me either at 4.5.
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Glad to hear I'm not crazy. I've seen plenty of people online say that the DRRI is a loud amp but I can get way more clean volume out of my cube than the DRRI. I think I'll sell it and pick up a quilter or something else.
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Doesn't every tube Fender amp start to distort right between 4-5, if you have your guitar plugged into the #1 input--especially if it is a humbucking pickup? (Assuming that there is no hive of bees distortion pedal between the guitar and the amp.) All of them that I have used did, with the exception of the Showman and the Twin Reverb. They held up a little better--those two amps don't want to distort too much.
The trick is, how loud is the amp at 4-5. For club gigs, I used to find the Deluxe Reverb adequately loud for a three-piece band or a solo gig. For a big band with horns, a soul review, or a rock band--I moved up to a Pro Reverb or a Super Reverb (now, I use a 5f6a Bassman for that work). For a theater/auditorium or for outdoors, in the pre-"mic-thru-the-PA days, I would move up to a Twin Reverb. Everybody else would have started at the Pro Reverb, moved up to the Twin Reverb, then topped out at a stack of Marshalls.
I see no point in going above the Bassman/Super Reverb/Pro Reverb for guitar, these days. If you like solid-state amps, then the AI/RE or Evans is about all you need. But I digress.
The point is, if you are using Fender tube amps, playing jazz, using humbucker pickups, and plugging into #1 inputs, your amp has a volume knob that goes from 0-5.
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There is no audible difference between 35-watts and 40-watts.
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The humbucker on my eastman stays cleaner on the DRRI higher on the knob than the single coil neck pickup on my tele. Perhaps the tele neck pickup is set too high but I like the way it sound so I'm not going to fiddle with it.
Staying clean til 4 or 5 is no problem, I just expected more volume from 22 tube watts.
Agreed on forgoing the full stacks of marshalls though!
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no, but that 35 or 40 watts and the 6L6 power tube configuration as opposed to the DR's 22 watts and 6v6 configuration sure makes for one.... Originally Posted by Greentone
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Ah...what to expect from the power of an amp.
A Champ has about 5 watts of power. Double that and you get a Harvard. Double that and you get a Deluxe Reverb. A Deluxe Reverb has about double-double the power of a Champ, or 6db more power. In terms of the perception of power, that is about 50-percent louder than the Champ. You would think that four times the power would be more than 50-percent more perceived sound pressure, but it isn't.
The same power margin exists between a Deluxe Reverb and a Twin Reverb. The Twin is double-double, or 6db more. (I am referring to Blackface circuits, here--88watts.) Again, this is about 50-percent more perceived power.
I think that many people, like drbhrb _expect_ the four-fold more powerful amp to be much louder...only it isn't.
Now, if you stand in front of a Marshall stack it is loud as heck! That is in part because the old Marshalls were very conservatively rated. However, it was also due to the fact that Marshall cabinets are beamy as all getout. The acoustic power is very focused in a narrow cone. Right in front of a Marshall cab is insanely loud...off to one side or the other, the power drops WAY off. The sound is very evenly dispersed all around a Fender Twin Reverb with its open back design.
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You can try a 5751 or 12at7 in the v1 spot to lower the preamp gain without too much volume change.
More often than not I'm able to use my Princeton Reverb (with an efficient 12" speaker) for anything. When I can't I have a blackfaced Bandmaster 2x10" combo.
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If your BJ kept up a DRRI should as well, especially with a CR speaker. Make sure you use an amp stand and point the amp at your head not your knees.
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Originally Posted by hallpass
Changing the reverb tube also you will get a nice range to dial-in and not the Fender max reverb at 1.5.
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The DR gets plenty loud but it doesn't stay clean. The BR has a volume and master so you can control the dirt better.
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I think that's quite normal as explained in much greater details above by other contributors, but that doesn't bother me when I play single notes lines. Originally Posted by drbhrb
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When Leo sold the company, designers made cleaner amps. Those models failed in the market. People wanted 0-5 clean, 5-10 dirty.
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I'm aware. I was responding to D.R. who said it should be able to keep up if a Blues Jr could. Originally Posted by Jazz_175
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Maybe I have an exceptional one or something, but I don't have any problems with clean headroom with my DRRI, and I have even used it with a big band. If I keep the volume on the guitar at about 3/4, adjust the treble on the amp to about 2 and the bass around 4, I can stay clean to around 6 on the amp volume. That's way more than I need in small group settings (usually without a drummer), but is enough to cut through the big band at that volume. Also, I don't find the amp to be excessively bright as others have observed.
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The C-Rex speaker is rated at 50w. The stock speaker is a Jensen CK12 which is rated at 100w. Remove the C10 cap in the amp and get rid of the C-Rex and put in a Eminence Swamp Thang that is rated at 150w and is very efficient and loud and a great clean speaker for jazz. Also put a new production Mullard long plate 12ax7 in V1. WaaLaa tons of good clean loud headroom. At least that worked for me.
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I have a DRRI with a Cannabis Rex speaker in it. Love that speaker in that amp. I rarely turn mine past 2 or 3, even with drummer with sticks. I'm surprised so many can't get enough clean headroom from this amp.
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The deluxe reverb is designed to have a low headroom and saturation occuring around 4-5.
If you want more clean volume out of it, the obvious solution is to change the speaker for a more efficient one (speaker efficiency = how much sound comes out a speaker, for a specified energy. a more efficient speaker is a modification that has MUCH MORE EFFECT ON THE OVERALL VOLUME THAN INCREASING (even doubling) THE WATT AMOUNT, since it's evaluated in DBs and watts are .. watts ).This can be a MAJOR improvement in your amp's volume and tone for jazz, i heard one deluxe reverb loaded with a weber speaker and one without it, and that the weber one was twice (litterally twice!!!!!) louder, with a better definition, note separation, air, tightness, synamics, reactivity, etc etc .. not.the.same.amp!! (the modified amp also had all his trannies changed for mercury magnetics and i don't know if ALL these changes should be done to reach that particular tone))
I also THINK that changing the output transform for a better/bigger one would change the amount of distortion generated.
i also think that improving the power transform would give an overall better, punchier tone
i also heard that putting a good reverb transform changes the reverb or the deluxe reverb reissue from not-so-beautiful-short-delays to heavenly-beautiful-reverb.
The problem is: all these changes are worth 6-700$ if you ask a qualified tech to do them .. do you wanna pay another amp just because fender doesn't put quality parts in their products at the beggining?
I really really can't say enough how different the modified amp was, same guitare, same moment, same room, same settings.. not the same amp (and definately loud enough for a band setting, then..)
copy paste about speaker efficiency/wattage (every guitar player should read this once in his life)
So let's assume we have a speaker with a sensitivity of 90dB @ 1W/1m and a power handling capacity of up to 100W. If we power that speaker with 1W of power, it will generate 90dB when measured at a distance of 1 meter. If we double that power to 2W, the SPL measurement will increase to 93dB. If we increase the power to 10W, then the SPL measurement will increase to 100dB, which is "twice the perceived loudness" when compared to 1W. So it actually takes 10 times more power to give us a perceived doubling of volume level. Since this imaginary speaker is rated to safely handle up to 100W, we could double that volume level yet again, and in theory, hit up to 110dB SPL by increasing the power all the way up to 100W. One watt=90dB. One hundred watts, or 100X more power=110dB. That's a huge increase in power but only a "doubled double" (4X) increase in terms of perceived volume levels!
As you can see, it takes considerable increases in power—in the wattage of the amplifier—to "double" the perceived "volume." This is where speaker sensitivity/efficiency comes into the equation. If we replace that 90dB @ 1W/1m speaker with a model that has a sensitivity of 100dB @ 1W/1m, the numbers change dramatically. For starters, 1W of input power will give us 100dB SPL. Remember, the first speaker required 10W to achieve that same volume level! So by installing a more efficient speaker, we can get the same perceived volume level from a 1W amp as we could from a 10W amp that is coupled to a less efficient speaker. Again, this applies all the way up to the maximum power handling capacity of the speaker. Assuming our 100dB @ 1W/1m speaker can also handle up to 100W, it can give us up to 120dB SPL; again, that's double the perceived "volume level" of the 90dB @ 1W/1m 100W speaker's maximum level of 110dB SPL.Last edited by add4; 11-10-2014 at 11:27 AM.
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Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
The Cannabis Rex speaker is likely not an issue. It is a very loud/efficient speaker (101.8db sensitivity) and twice the wattage the amp puts out. Originally Posted by dmorash
I'm surprised as well seeing that I often can use my Princeton Reverb.
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Funny how different everyone's experience has been with this amp. I didn't find the stock Jensen any clearer or louder. If anything it had more of a trebly bite. I happen to have a weber 12f150 laying around so I may swap it out to see how it sounds.
More likely though I'll just sell the DRRI. I happened upon a Quilter Aviator 12 for only $400 on craiglist and it sounds better than the DRRI and stays clean all the way up the knob(if I want to it). It also has the bonus of no tubes to lug around and replace.
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I find stock Jensens a little trebly, too. I use Weber alnicos for most gigging.
I have no problem for most of what I do using tweed Deluxe amps set no louder than 3--either normal or bright (instrument or mic) channels. Very occasionally, I will use two tweed Deluxe amps for an outdoor rock gig at a frat house. Otherwise, for a jazz, blues, etc., gig I just hump a Deluxe to the gig with the guitar of choice. If it's a 335, I plug into the #2 input of the channel; if it's a Strat or a Tele, I plut into the #1 input of the channel. Everything is copacetic. A Princeton Reverb works just as well. A Deluxe Reverb is actually overkill for me anymore...i.e., 12 watts = great; 22 watts and I can get too loud.
Solid state is a different beast. The original Polytone amps (Hmm? what were they, 60-70 watts?) are good for the same gigs. IMO, a 10-20 watt tube Fender amp is about the same as a 50-75 watt solid-state amp out in the real world.
I have gigged with a Pro Jr along side guitarists using 150-watt solid-state Fender something-or-other amps. The Pro Jr held its own, just fine. That was 15 watts. Nothing was mic'd. People in the audience were dumbfounded--no pedals, no tricks. Telecaster, cable, Pro Jr. Booyah. Rock gigs; loud drummer.
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