-
I knew I should have gotten that '65 Twin...
(Just Joking.. For the same reason I never bought that Marshall 100 watt Super Lead - I love my hearing too much.)Last edited by AlsoRan; 10-06-2013 at 07:46 PM. Reason: clarification
-
10-06-2013 04:11 PM
-
How loud are you guys playing? What ever happened to having a backline and DIing into the PA? How can you think straight with a Fender Twin doing its stuff beside you? Then the audience gets the Twin AND the DI into the House PA! Am I missing out on the new Baseball Stadium jazz gigs?
Last edited by ChrisDowning; 10-06-2013 at 05:24 PM.
-
DRRI sounds, just how to set also any Fender and any good amps.
-
Perhaps some of you guys outside of North America are simply not that familiar with it, but there is a Fender combo amp between the Deluxe Reverb and the Twin Reverb (and it's not the Super Reverb, which is a lovely amp). It's the Pro Reverb - like a Twin Reverb but with half the power, less weight, 2x12" speakers and all the headroom that the Deluxe Reverb doesn't have.
Late 1960s Pro Reverb on left, late 1960s Twin Reverb on right:Last edited by Hammertone; 10-07-2013 at 02:04 AM.
-
Going back to the original thread question...
It is interesting how so many people will comment on how loud the adverts are compared to the programme on television. "The must turn the volume right up so those adverts 'shout' at you", they say. But actually they aren't louder, they are perceived as louder because the sound is much more compressed in the advert compared to the programme. The result is the programme running on a range of 'loudness', say, 4 - 10 and the advertisements running between 8-10.
Most guitarists will perhaps see a compressor as either limiting volume and leveling out their chord work, or sustaining notes by raising the volume of a decaying note - so you hear it for longer. But you could set the compression to avoid creating those powerful tones that cause distortion and at the same time bring up the quiter tones to a higher level (the 8-10 range thing). Like the TV advert, you'll sound louder, because everything you play will be in that 8-10 range instead of the uncompressed 4 -10 range.
Virtually all recordings, radio and tv broadcasts, and film use compression. We are so used to it in that context we don't even notice anymore.
-
Hammertone - is that like a Fender Concert which is rated at 60 watts and is supposed to be a louder version of a DLR?
-
I do not know, but I suspect it is quite different.
Originally Posted by ChrisDowning
Fender has used the "Concert" moniker on several completely different amps over the years:
- Original "Concert" @1960 - 1965 - sort of like a stripped out Super Reverb, no reverb, cool tremolo circuit, mid-powered vintage amp, not very popular but still expensive
- Paul Rivera "Concert" series @1980's - Came in a variety of formats. I have seen them but never played through one - it has no relation to the Pro Reverb in terms of circuit design - designed for rock as well as clean playing.
- 1990's Concert - yet another version.
I'm not a technical guy when it comes to amps, but this is interesting:
http://fenderguru.com/amps/pro-reverbLast edited by Hammertone; 10-07-2013 at 12:03 PM.
-
Yes, I've never treid the Concert version of the DLR2 that I have. But it must be mighhty loud. One problem with big wattage amps is keeping the background noise down when you don't want all that valume - small gigs. The obvious upgrade is to use a mre sensitive speaker - but hell a DLR is pretty loud already - I'm avoiding thosee sorts of gigs.
I guess the current slot that the Pro Reverb took is currently occupied by the Hot Rod Deluxe and its George Benson alternative configuration. 1x12" and 40 watts.
-
Several folks on this forum argued until they were blue in the face about how the deluxe was plenty loud enough for any gig. This is a clip where the group isn't even that loud and you can hear severe clipping on the block chords from Paul Bollenback. It still sounds good but a 50 watt amp would have captured the guitar sound so much better IMO. You can get away with this kind of overdrive in an organ trio but playing brazilian or more modern clean stuff (think kreisberg...) this distortion might not be welcome.
-
I remember my first gig in an organ trio back in the day and my L-5 through a DR couldn't cut it, so I came back next week w/a Vibrolux Reverb.......nope. [he was using B-3/Leslie 122 w/a big Peavey amp on top.
I can still remember him asking me afterwards "do you have a more powerful amp than those?"
so I went out and bought a blackface Twin and haven't looked back since. I'll still get a little breakup form time to time, but just the right amount.
[keep in mind that I rarely mic, unless it's a festival or other big venue]
-
btw, I know some folks in NY that converted their DR's to 6L6 configuration to gain more headroom in order to still take public transportation to a gig, but still not enough for me--a 22 watt DR or 35 watt VR won't cut it for me.
-
I would just make two comments in response to Jack's original post: -
1. Bollenback is playing through a Hot Rod Deluxe (40w) in that video.
2. Kreisberg is a big fan of the Deluxe Reverb - his preferred backline for gigs is a Deluxe Reverb and a Polytone with a 15" speaker, running in stereo.
-
it's fine for the single notes but I know for a fact that he didn't dig it for block chords. Anyone serious about block chord playing is not going to dig that. Again, for a blues and an organ trio gig it works but not enough headroom for other stuff... Originally Posted by Klatu
-
#1 - yes, you're correct. Originally Posted by David B
#2 - Deluxe reverb and a polytone gives significantly more headroom.
-
I put 40 watt transformers in my Deluxe Reverb many years ago, but it still isn't loud enough in some situations.
Stereo with a SS amp is a good idea, if only I had an extra arm to carry the extra amp.
Paul Bollenback is a great player, I attended one of his Guitar workshops a long while back.
-
Whoever would say that a BF Deluxe would work in any situation? I know that for my needs, it's actually a bit of overkill
Course, the drummers that I play with are required to use brushes. I have amps ranging from 5-85 watts. I currently use either a 13 watt Excelsior or a 15 watt Princeton, both with hyper-efficient speakers and I never get 'em into overdrive. But if it were a problem, I'd pull out my 40 watt amp. And if that wasn't good enough, I go for the Twin. If the Twin isn't loud enough there's something seriously wrong with either the approach or the rest of the band.
I do know that if you're shoving too much bass signal into a BF it's gonna fart out. Some of this can be alleviated with a more efficient speaker, but it might not result in the desired tone.
-
several experts here said they use a deluxe reverb for big band and organ trio and have never needed anything louder and basically were refuting my statement that you need a 40 watt or bigger amp for playing in a loud band. In the case above, paul is playing through a 40 watt amp and it's still distorting.
-
If I were playing in a loud band -- and I mean rock band loud -- personally I'd want a 40-watt or more amp. OTOH, I played in a rock band with 2 keyboards, bass, drums and 2 vox and my little Princeton was a bit too loud for 'em most the time. And OTOOH, I played in a doom metal band and needed 120 watts of brutal power Originally Posted by jzucker
It really depended on the band.
I would say that a 22-watt amp should get you through a lot of situations, if not perfectly, at least well enough.
I'm reminded a bit of pedal steel players who consider a Twin under-powered because they want pristine clean at ear-bleed levels with their volume pedal barely cracked on.
Different strokes for different folks.
-
Im sure some people have had luck with em, but those Fender Hot Rods always sound kinda dirty to me.
Paul's tone (killer playing, btw) works fine at the organ/sax gig...but yeah, that dirty wouldn't fly elsewhere...
40 watts is only one part of loudness...ive played super reverbs that probably could have hung...but who's famous enough to lug one of those around? Not me!
I wonder if some cats who claim a deluxe can handle any gig are coming from a rock background, where "clean" is a little more relative...
Funny aside...that Johnny Cash impersonator ive played with (and will be playing again in the chicago/northwest indiana area this fall, get tickets now!) Asked me to "get a little dirt" in my tone...now, im miked up for this stuff, So im just playing a princeton...well, anyway, I dime it and he says "whoa, maybe not Paris Hilton dirty..."
-
i think some guys are doing restaurant or quieter club gigs , parties, etc. You definitely couldn't play a jazz club with joey defrancesco using a deluxe reverb. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
and some guys just play wimpy. If you play with a hard attack ala bollenback, randy johnston, pat martino, george benson, you definitely can't use a deluxe reverb with a loud band.
Does it not occur to anyone that there is a reason cats like benson, martino, kreisberg, bollenback are using 2 amps these days? Martino was using a pair of roland jc-120s when i saw him at blues alley.
Modern jazz guitar is a bit different than 40s and 50s style jazz guitar. I think the old timers can get away with smaller setups because they are less demanding of the instrument and the gear in terms of volume.
-
I used a Deluxe Reverb in a big band for a couple years, and during loud passages I had to be careful not to dig in too hard or it would definitely start to break up. My remedy was to switch from an archtop with HB pup to a strat, and that worked nice for big band rhythm. Tubes gave it a nice fat sound, but the single coil pup kept the amp from driving into crunchville as easily as a humbucker.
-
Originally Posted by jzucker
Baloney. HRD's have plenty of headroom. I'm not sure what speaker your listening through, but he's not distorting. His tone is just muddy. That could be the recording.
-
I would never use a Deluxe Reverb for any gig that requires lots of volume (except, of course, a rock gig. But I don't do those.) For small, quiet gigs it works fine as well as for recordings. Originally Posted by jzucker
-
I like that sound.
-
The Hot Rod series have a hot pre-amp, that uses a whole extra 12ax7 gain-stage compared to the BF-design (even when the drive is off), so they break up more easily than a Deluxe Reverb. I agree with Jack and the others who say that to keep your tone clean even on low volumes you need more watts. I have a Blues Deluxe (similar to the Hot Rod Deluxe) that I tamed down a bit with a 12AY in V1 and a 12AT7 as P.I., but you still have to be carefull not to dig in too hard, especially when playing block cords indeed.
Although I like a bit of hair from time to time, I like taking my Twin Reverb out as much as possible. If only those under-payed jazz gigs that I'm doing wouldn't be in those dodgy little cafés in the centre that a hard to reach by car (not to mention that sometimes the earnings hardly cover parking fee sometimes....)
Reply With Quote
Autumn Leaves (Jazz Guitar Live)
Today, 04:05 PM in The Songs