The Sound of 1950's Jazz Guitar

**Harri** · 01-05-2015, 02:50 PM

I actually like the tiny bit of natural break up that Kessel has in some of his recordings. It's very natural sounding to me, reminds me of Kenny Burrell's guitar sound. So I'm not that keen on keeping it 100% clean.

Here's what I mean:

**Mr_Dave** · 01-05-2015, 02:59 PM

I know what you mean. That's one of my favorites sounds.

For me, I like the sound of octal preamp tubes breaking up just a little. I've never been much of a fan of the sound of speaker breakup unless it's combined with a LOT of amp overdrive. So I tend towards speakers that don't break up even when the amp does.

**ruger9** · 01-05-2015, 04:49 PM

The Cannabis Rex, due in part to the hemp cone, will sound more like a 50-year-old Jensen than a new Jensen you buy ever will (unless you want to wait 50 years). There's a reason Vintage 47 specs the hemp cone speakers for their designs- they SOUND OLD- out of the box. I put one of those Tone Tubby/Vintage47 8" speakers in my little Champion 600, and it was UNBELIEVABLE how far that went into transforming the amp into a little 50's tube practice machine. IMO, that speaker probably has more to do with how the V47s sound than the circuit does, especially if it can take a Fender blackface tonestack (in the Champion 600) and make it sound like an Oahu Suitcase:

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**Mr_Dave** · 01-05-2015, 05:21 PM

Might as well ask.....does anyone have experience with a Gibson GA50 vs a GA50T ?

**Eddie Lang** · 01-05-2015, 10:15 PM

SeQuel amps (mentioned in the OP, and in a couple other posts on page 1 and 2) are made to sound like 1950s Gibson amps. The SeQuel Tribute is modelled after the GA50, I believe. Looking at a pic of the back, the Tribute has a P12N no bell and I'd say that the 8" speaker looks like it's a P8R.

I have a Tributary, the Tribute's smaller sibling. It has a P12N no bell, and I am very happy with it, playing my old L-7 with McCarty and L-4C with DeArmond FHC.

ruger9's suggestion of a Cannabis Rex is a good one too. I have that speaker in a custom made Fender Deluxe-inspired amp, and I chose it with the amp builder because of that vintage sound I was looking for.

**boatheelmusic** · 01-05-2015, 10:32 PM

I have the Cannabis Rex in my Hot Rod Deluxe, and it gives me the jazz tone with my ES175.

no need for me to search further.

**Petimar** · 01-06-2015, 02:30 AM

I got a chance to play a friends 56 Deluxe on a gig last weekend. Miced the amp so didn't need huge stage volume. Man was that fun! Sounded very close to Van Gelder's recordings. Now I really know what that sound was.

I'm now starting a search for vintage tubes for my fairly new 5E3 clone in hopes to get it close to this Deluxe's sound.

**Little Jay** · 01-06-2015, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Harri

Hey, thanks Mr_Dave for that post! I'm still searching for a nice match of 12" and 8" speakers. I'm also considering a 12" and 10" match.

I think you could combine a P8R and a P12R. Wired in parallel they should be able to take 50 watts (correct me if I'm wrong about that!). I read some commentaries on the net though, that the P12R sounds trebly with too little bass...... No experience with the P12R, but the two P10Rs delivered plenty of bass in my amp (a Blues Deluxe).

**Mr_Dave** · 01-06-2015, 11:20 AM

Can someone tell me what kind of preamp tubes the SeQuel's use ?

They look nice, but quite a bit more then I've seen actual GA50's sell for.

The Victoria Electro King and Cherry Bomb also seem worth a look.

**Eddie Lang** · 01-07-2015, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Mr_Dave

Can someone tell me what kind of preamp tubes the SeQuel's use ?

They look nice, but quite a bit more then I've seen actual GA50's sell for.

The Victoria Electro King and Cherry Bomb also seem worth a look.

Not sure about the Tribute, but the Tributary has an EF806 in preamp, and two 6L6.

**Herbie** · 01-08-2015, 03:21 PM

Tere Harri! Nice to see here other fennougrian guitarists too (I'm from Finland)!

Many guitarists – specially from roots genre – here in Finland have been speaking good words about Estonian amp builder (Kaiko Kasak or something like that) who makes amps under the brand Romu ('junk' in english).
The word tells that he takes the parts from old tube radios etc and the design follows the american classics. Or what ever You want! So maybe You can consultate him too.

Rikstone is very good choice too, haven't played them myself but heard only positive words about them.

Last summer I got a ES-175 VOS 1PU 1959, which had one Classic 57. Tried a Lollar humbucker size CC pu in it with high hopes but was a bit confused with it.

The humbucker sings more, if You know what I mean. It has a bit more musical compression than I found in the Lollar CC. My conclusion was that I am not a good enough player to CC pu's broad dynamics!

So I stick with humbucker – but not with Classic but Seymour Duncan Seth Lover. Classic hb but open and 3D sounding.

Have a great hunt after the Tone!

**coolvinny** · 01-08-2015, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Dave

Can someone tell me what kind of preamp tubes the SeQuel's use ?

They look nice, but quite a bit more then I've seen actual GA50's sell for.

The Victoria Electro King and Cherry Bomb also seem worth a look.

In my Sequel the preamp tubes are 6SN7. Power tubes are 6L6. It is a fantastic amp.

**Eddie Lang** · 01-08-2015, 09:07 PM

@coolvinny, yours is the Ravine, right?

**jasonc** · 01-08-2015, 10:50 PM

I'd imagine the 6SN7 is the phase inverter tube. 6SJ7's and 6SL7's were fairly common preamp tubes of that time. 6SQ7's were used in the really early Gibson amps and 6SC7's were used in really early Fenders.

**coolvinny** · 01-08-2015, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Eddie Lang

@coolvinny, yours is the Ravine, right?

Yes, Ravine.

**boatheelmusic** · 01-09-2015, 07:51 AM

In the Audiophile world, the 6SN7 is highly prized in preamp stages, though they can get expensive.

**Greentone** · 01-09-2015, 08:24 AM

Very $$ for good NOS.

**pubylakeg** · 11-25-2015, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Harri

Hi!

Good to see some new posts here in this thread. I'm currently discussing details with an amp builder rikstone.com. He's going to build a Gibson GA50 inspired amp for me. I was just wondering about the speakers. Does anybody know which speakers were in the original GA50 and GA50T? Are they available on todays' market? Perhaps anybody can tell me if Kessel or Hall had any modifications made to their GA50's?

Thanks!

Well, I thought I'd revive this old thread because the amp builder rikstone.com has his Gibson GA-50 inspired amp, called the C25g pictured on his website. Looks very interesting. You'll find it by scrolling down the menu on the left,

rikstone.com

Anyone have any further info ?

**Little Jay** · 11-25-2015, 04:12 PM

Looks like a very interesting amp! I like the switchable ss/tube rectifier. No reverb? Looks like a reverb-bag on the bottom?

**Harri** · 11-25-2015, 04:43 PM

Hey, guys! Long time no see.

The amp on his webpage is the amp that he built for me! I am extremely happy with the sound, it definitely reminds me of the Kessel/Hall sound that I was looking for at the time.

Risto Kivioja is a very smart craftsman, together we discussed many details. One of the requests from me was that there would be no built in reverb 'cause I dislike the sound of spring reverb and I didn't want him to add a digital reverb to this simple set up. As stated on the website, the amp has only 3 knobs - volume, bass & treble. I can get the tone I'm looking for with just these options as the amplifier (and I guess mostly the speakers) have a really good midrange sound.

Here's a clip of my tune "Chet"

I am playing a Gibson L4C 1960 archtop with a Swingmaster single coil pickup.

Regards,
Harri

**pubylakeg** · 11-25-2015, 07:12 PM

Thanks for the update Harry, great sounding amp and guitar.

What speakers did you end up putting in the amp ?

Could you advise us on build times or prices?

**Harri** · 11-27-2015, 06:21 PM

Thanks. The building process was rather quick, around a month, I think. The discussion period before that was much longer though. The amp cost a bit over 1000€.

Couple more tunes played with this amp: