Worst Jazz Guitar Tone?

**disco~juice** · 11-07-2013, 02:11 PM

It's funny to have a post like that I think

.

No offence to anyone!

I vote for the worst tone: Andreas Oberg electric tone.

Your turn, please...

**mr. beaumont** · 11-07-2013, 02:13 PM

Can we put a slightly positive twist on it? Great playing with a tone you don't like?

For me, that's 9 out of every 10 Joe Pass records.

**disco~juice** · 11-07-2013, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Can we put a slightly positive twist on it? Great playing with a tone you don't like?

For me, that's 9 out of every 10 Joe Pass records.

Exactly, that's what I hate with players like Andreas Oberg, Bireli Lagrene, most live tone of Howard Alden etc.
They play great but I think they don't care about their tone much.

**jorgemg1984** · 11-07-2013, 02:31 PM

I agree with all the ones mentioned here, Grant Green also has some tones I dislike...

**helios** · 11-07-2013, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Can we put a slightly positive twist on it? Great playing with a tone you don't like?

For me, that's 9 out of every 10 Joe Pass records.

Good call on the slight redirection on the thread!

To the topic of the thread: John Pizzarelli--Great playing and vocals (and jazz guitar genes from Bucky), but thin sounding Benedetto tone (to my ears) when that was his instrument of choice.

**gianluca** · 11-07-2013, 02:41 PM

how world is strange

: I spend a lot of time to emulate bireli's super-V tone... I found that tone one of the most natural arch top tone I've never heard: not too much electrical, not too muche acoustic. no boomy basses. a lot of woody (woodoo) nuances

**D.G.** · 11-07-2013, 02:49 PM

I've heard some Bireli Lagrene electric tones I thought were pretty un-listenable, but the above vid is NOT one of them. That's a pretty great tone there!

I would have to put Scofield's old "chorus-always-on" tone as a particular dis-favorite of mine, as well as most of Metheny's "blanket-over-the-guitar" tones. In fact, the 80-90's were a particularly bad time for over-use of chorus and delay

**wintermoon** · 11-07-2013, 03:26 PM

Metheny and Scofield
sorry....

**wintermoon** · 11-07-2013, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Can we put a slightly positive twist on it? Great playing with a tone you don't like?

For me, that's 9 out of every 10 Joe Pass records.

yeah, Joe liked the treble sound, likely why his later guitars like the D'Aquisto and Ibanez J.P. had the pickup backed away from the neck

Pizzarelli plays great, but I don't care for his nasaly vocals at all.

Grant Green's sound I like much better than his playing....

**Jehu** · 11-07-2013, 03:38 PM

I feel like most of the classic big players (pass, jimmy raney, etc.) whose tone that we like to obsess over emulating didn't bother half as much as we do. They just plugged their box into their polytone and got on with the part that matters.

Also, I like Birelli's sound in the clip above, but to me Luc' Multiac sounds awful!

**mr. beaumont** · 11-07-2013, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

yeah, Joe liked the treble sound, likely why his later guitars like the D'Aquisto and Ibanez J.P. had the pickup backed away from the neck

Is that why? I always figured it was because he had become accustomed to where the pickup was on his 175 and his technique had adapted to that location as well.

I say this, because moving that pickup back an inch doesn't mean you can't dial in a darker tone.

I guess I don't like really bright jazz tones unless they're smoothed out with some reverb or something...Bireli's another one...when he plays that big Gibson with the floater, I think his tone is terrible. I also don't like the way he plays that guitar--his technique seems much cleaner on a SelMac or even a solidbody.

I don't really obsess over HOW I sound but I do get worked up about consistency. Thank goodness for my Henriksen.

**wintermoon** · 11-07-2013, 04:19 PM

could be Jeff.

**DRS** · 11-07-2013, 04:25 PM

Scofield - too processed. But I like a lot of his playing.

Other than him, I don't really listen to tone much. I listen to the music. I prefer Wes' tone over some others but it's not a big deal.

**AmundLauritzen** · 11-07-2013, 04:35 PM

Well this goes to show that tone is a preference thing, consider there is just about as many who like Birelis tone as those who dislike it.
I think you'll find this with most guitarists.

I'm a huge fan of the L-5 sound, and I like Birelis playing a lot.
My tastes have changed a lot. In the beginning I was all about Tal Farlow(still love his playing and listen to it) and wanted a legato sound, so that was what I went for.
Now I'm all about the Benson/Bireli/Oberg staccatto, so I like a brighter more pronounced tone, but that has more to do with how I pick than what I plug into. But I guess it illustrates how your taste and how it changes also changes the way you play guitar.

I wouldn't like to ever stagnate and listen to one style of playing the rest of my life.

So I guess I can't put my finger on it really. As my tastes have changed, I appreciate tones I didn't appreciate before, and tones that was interesting before is not so interesting anymore. I find myself going back and forth a lot too.

**StevieB** · 11-07-2013, 04:39 PM

Although he is just about my very favorite modern jazz player . . when Metheny cranks up the synth, I run for cover!

**willschmid97** · 11-07-2013, 04:39 PM

I'd say Metheny's RECENT tone. I think it has to do with his switch to Ibanez in the early 90s. He just not get the same fullness that he got with his Gibson. His Manzer acoustics always sound great, and the Roland synth still sounds cool in some instances, but I just don't care for his electric archtop tone that much anymore.
With that said, I love Metheny's playing and writing to death and will religiously listen to any of his recordings past, present, and future. Tone does not make a player!

**ecj** · 11-07-2013, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jehu

Also, I like Birelli's sound in the clip above, but to me Luc' Multiac sounds awful!

I don't think I've ever heard an electrified nylon string that I liked the sound of. The Piezo pickup might be my least favorite thing in music.

**disco~juice** · 11-07-2013, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Is that why? I always figured it was because he had become accustomed to where the pickup was on his 175 and his technique had adapted to that location as well.

I say this, because moving that pickup back an inch doesn't mean you can't dial in a darker tone.

I guess I don't like really bright jazz tones unless they're smoothed out with some reverb or something...Bireli's another one...when he plays that big Gibson with the floater, I think his tone is terrible. I also don't like the way he plays that guitar--his technique seems much cleaner on a SelMac or even a solidbody.

I don't really obsess over HOW I sound but I do get worked up about consistency. Thank goodness for my Henriksen.

Andreas Oberg and Bireli Lagrene are just monsters when it comes to manouche guitar sound, their archtop sound is pretty "thin".

**djangoles** · 11-07-2013, 05:24 PM

I only own one recording of his... but Mike Stern Standards gives me a headache

**pkirk** · 11-07-2013, 05:32 PM

strange how perceptions differ. Here are my takes on these questions:

I like the tone of all the masters listed above. I think that all great musicians put a lot of thought and effort into their sound, and although I understand the criticisms made by others about metheny/scofield/ etc, I love those guy's tones.

In rare instances when I find that I dislike someone's recorded tone, (as opposed to live tone in a difficult room or difficult circumstances), they are almost always playing a high end carved-top big name archtop.

This doesn't fit Jeff's revision of the question, but the only person whose tone I consistently hate is mine.

**teok** · 11-07-2013, 05:49 PM

I've seen a few clips of John McGlaughlin's more recent stuff where his tone is painfully bad. Way distorted, pinched and nasally.

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Can we put a slightly positive twist on it? Great playing with a tone you don't like?

Not jazz, but Steve Lukather. And several Jeff Beck recordings. And many of the super chorusy Mike Stern tone clones in the 90's.

**fws6** · 11-07-2013, 05:58 PM

Mine

**Philco** · 11-07-2013, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by gianluca

how world is strange

: I spend a lot of time to emulate bireli's super-V tone... I found that tone one of the most natural arch top tone I've never heard: not too much electrical, not too muche acoustic. no boomy basses. a lot of woody (woodoo) nuances

The intro by Sylvain is just...killing.....so good.
Actually I'm surprised by Birelli's tone in this clip because it's actually ok to my ears. Usually his tone doesn't do it for me at all.
Perhaps these guys do so many gigs with so many hired amps that they just go for a basic "passable" sound to get through the night.
Sylvain's tone on the other hand is that horrid piezo DI sound that is the blight of all those instruments.
I actually "love" Birelli's tone on that second last finishing lick where he plays much lighter. That's one of the nicest tones I've heard from an L5 type instrument. I actually had a pang of regret about selling mine as I listened to that.

But as always it's worth mentioning....that clip has been mixed after the event. That ain't no "off the desk" mix.
So someone has worked on those sounds.

**Jimmy Mack** · 11-07-2013, 08:02 PM

Well, if they worked on those sounds, I'd like to think that they improved on them, but I don't think they were "worked" on, maybe mixed for balance, but they sure didn't do anything to improve the "pinched harmonics" section, just after the 7 minute mark!!!

I just don't get the point of those pinched harmonics in jazz. They are not musical and they are no where near strong enough to make any statement, and rarely have I seen them done well.

Yeah, the piezo guitar is weak, buzzy, thin, and at times annoying. Great playing tho!

The Gibson guitar is a Super V and to me doesn't sound like an L5. It sounds more like a Johnny Smith, and that tone is the reason I sold my JS. I now have a L5 CES, and I ain't selling it. I know some other jazz players who feel exactly the same. In fact, one guy has JS with top mounted p/ups like an L5CES, to back up his L5 CES.

**targuit** · 11-07-2013, 08:14 PM

[QUOTE=Philco;375876]The intro by Sylvain is just...killing.....so good.
Actually I'm surprised by Birelli's tone in this clip because it's actually ok to my ears. Usually his tone doesn't do it for me at all.

Now these guys aren't really that bad! Bless their little hearts, they are trying! - [sarcasm font off].

Birelli Lagrene is perhaps my favorite living guitarist. I like this tone...a lot. Sylvain Luc - knows how to play, too.

Jay