Modern jazz guitar sound

[jzucker]

[kris]

[jzucker]

[jbernstein91]

[2bornot2bop]

I'm sorry, but I'm no fan of the so called "modern" sound. Yech! If it doesn't have too much reverb in it it sounds too "rockish" for my tastes.

And to those who complain about the old school "sound" or playing, who is going to be listening to any of these "modern" players in 50 years? If anything, I'm glad I was born in a time where I could hear the old school players in their time. I'm biased, and I don't apologize for being biased towards old school "jazz."

Where's the next Kenny Burrell, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, etc? Can anyone name one player today whose music will be played 50 years from now?

End rant.

[bosevelt]

I like this one;

[jzucker]

This video featuring allan holdsworth track was recorded 45 years ago and we're still listening to and worshipping allan. There are entire schools of playing derived from him. Many modern jazz players list hendrix an an influence. Even Mike Brecker admitted being influenced by Hendrix.

What makes jazz a unique music is that it morphs with the times. Like life itself, it can't be held back. It will continue to grow. But please folks, it's fine if you don't like modern jazz guitar but please don't pollute this thread with a lot of bickering about who's best, what is and what isn't jazz. If you don't like it, kindly start another thread about the "real sound of jazz guitar" or whatever you like and I promise not to post in that thread that it's all retread with no sense of originality.

[Fidelcaster]

allan holdsworth [...] There are entire schools of playing derived from him.

A (veteran) Italian representative of a such "holdsworthian school" is Nico Stufano:

[Duotone]

this:

and that:

[sunnysideup]

I really enjoy the music of Gilad, Kurt and Kreisberg, but I have to say in my mind they are the young conservatives most of the time, working very squarely (sorry, I mean firmly) within the tradition, both in terms of sound and note choices - even when Kreisberg is playing outside he sounds inside, and that's a great achievement on his part. If 2bornot2bop is looking for a young Joe Pass, he might find him lurking with those 3 musicians (and others I'm sure).


But please allow me to quote Fred Frith....

[Cunamara]

Where's the next Kenny Burrell, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, etc? Can anyone name one player today whose music will be played 50 years from now?

End rant.

Allan Holdsworth for one. Ben Monder for another. Maybe Jonathan Kreisberg. Peter Bernstein. John Scofield. Bill Frisell. A lot of the "new" jazz guitarists are prodigiously skilled and IMHO on par with the old guys. The difference is that Kenny, Wes, Joe, etc., played when jazz was higher profile than now (not that that's saying all that much).

[gggomez]

Tal Yahalom

[thpm]

Wolfgang Muthspiel experiments with his tone quite a bit recently.

I still like the crystal clear tone he had with playing a Heritage Millennium Eagle best:

[jzucker]

i think many folks miss the point. A huge issue with jazz is that it doesn't connect with today's youth. One of the reasons for that is that young people aren't interested in listening to music from the 1950s or 1960s. The younger jazz players who are playing more modern music are connecting with a younger audience, some of whom will go check out who the young players idolized and will eventually find their way back to some of the older cats. Music that is stagnant will eventually be relegated to a museum piece.

To say that Rez Abassi is playing nonsense and that what he's doing won't be remembered 50 years from now is not only short-sighted, but insulting to a jazz musician who was born in Pakistan and came to the USA, brandishing his experiences playing Pakastani, arabic and eastern music and rhythms and fusing them with jazz. He and players like him are the future and only hope for jazz IMO. Otherwise, jazz will only be listened to by old timers chasing people off their lawns.

And as to the "Wes Montgomery" of today, I remember growing up and idolizing George Benson, Pat Martino and Wes Montgomery and hearing from the old timers I was studying with that those cats had ruined music and they longed for the golden-age players like George Barnes, Carl Kress and Barney Kessel.

[vinlander]

What we call modern might simply be "of its time".
It is a fact people in general like what they know (borrowed that from someone) and I would add are usually resistant to changes (no pun intended). Maybe it has something to do with security and comfort of expectations being met.
They expect things to be like they know and they connect more with it; who wants to feel old and outdated?
Artists are usually not stuck in time, some of their audience are and expect them to play what they (as the audience) know because the thought of something different is too much to bear.

[jzucker]

Artists do get stuck in time though. Herb Ellis - when i studied with him - hated what Pat Martino was doing. He thought Pat was a great player but absolutely hated the Joyous Lake stuff and stuff from Pat's Consciousness period. Barney Kessel was equally closed-minded. Interestingly enough, when I studied with Joe Pass, he was very open minded and liked everyone from Martino to Duane Allman.

What we call modern might simply be "of its time".
It is a fact people in general like what they know (borrowed that from someone) and I would add are usually resistant to changes (no pun intended). Maybe it has something to do with security and comfort of expectations being met.
They expect things to be like they know and they connect more with it; who wants to feel old and outdated?
Artists are usually not stuck in time, some of their audience are and expect them to play what they (as the audience) know because the thought of something different is too much to bear.

[jzucker]

[medblues]

I think Fareed Haque deserves a mention here:

[mr. beaumont]

I love when Fareed whips out the auto wah.

[xuoham]

I think Fareed Haque deserves a mention here:

Haha ! Brilliant arrangement idea, making the melody fit on a shorter chords cycle, with this Drum n' Bass vibe.
Too bad the solos are not up par and the track sinks into boredom, imo.

Impressive, however. Thanks.

[Ol' Fret]

i think many folks miss the point. A huge issue with jazz is that it doesn't connect with today's youth. One of the reasons for that is that young people aren't interested in listening to music from the 1950s or 1960s. The younger jazz players who are playing more modern music are connecting with a younger audience, some of whom will go check out who the young players idolized and will eventually find their way back to some of the older cats. Music that is stagnant will eventually be relegated to a museum piece.

Fully agreed! The problem is that so many jazz players, younger and older ones, struggle to make a reasonable living. How many wonderfully gifted musicians, which I've been lucky to listen, will never get the credit they deserve, and will inevitably remain more or less nameless? Therein lies one danger for younger jazz musicians: to waste their skills and dissipate energy into too much musical styles, bands, concert agencies or fads, in order to finally get to the point where they get recognized - instead of finding and following their own authentic voice.

The old black bluesmen followed their heart. Ironical enough, it seems as if the blues feeling, still a backbone of jazz, is slowly becoming a more and more emotional issue with the whites. An actual comment on Lightning Hopkins: "The [blues] appeal to white folk in the 21st century is probably that [black community] sense of humanity and heartfelt commitment to one another under extreme duress. US white folks don't have anything like that. We are getting stomped on by monsters with Big Money. We are now oppressed by our own Masters, and don't know how to respond. Social media and 'entertainment' leaves us 'cold as a snake sleepin in the shade', because it promises connection, and doesn't deliver."
Some jazzmen also followed their heart: "Dizzy and Bird did nothing for me musically, they didn't teach me anything. In fact, they were the ones who came to me with questions, but they got all the credit. They're supposed to be the founders of modern jazz when most of the time they only interpreted my ideas... " - Thelonious Monk (who was well known to be brutally honest or to say nothing).
Admittedly, these folks led a really hard life, but, at least, the quote by Henry David Thoreau does not apply to them: "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."

[Greentone]

I love old school jazz guitar. It's what I do. But, dang, this is some great stuff.

some of it reminds me of circa-80 Adrian Belew, when he was tearing it up with Zappa.

[Ol' Fret]

Artists do get stuck in time though. Herb Ellis - when i studied with him - hated what Pat Martino was doing. He thought Pat was a great player but absolutely hated the Joyous Lake stuff and stuff from Pat's Consciousness period. Barney Kessel was equally closed-minded. Interestingly enough, when I studied with Joe Pass, he was very open minded and liked everyone from Martino to Duane Allman.

It's more difficult to stay open-minded, not becoming crotchety over several decades than you think you will when you're young.
It's easier though, if you - like Joe Pass - have experienced really hard times, and are still allowing the memory of it later. Once I listened to Herb Ellis at one of his late concerts and understood why Emily Remler who was championed by Ellis, had to state: "I may look like a nice Jewish girl from New Jersey, but inside I’m a 50-year-old, heavyset black man with a big thumb, like Wes Montgomery."

[Greentone]

You _really_ can get closed off in the pursuit of excellence. That's okay, too. When I studied classical guitar the second time around, as an adult, my teacher was an exceptional, concertizing player. His claim was that the classical right and left hand techniques were more efficient for performing _any_ guitar repertoire than any other way of addressing the guitar. I was almost a convert, but I had to ask him, "What about the music of Robert Johnson?" His response was dismissive--"That's just Gypsy music." I asked him about jazz. His response was the same--"Gypsy music." I persisted, pointing out that many symphony orchestras performed the music of Gershwin. No dice.

I don't fault Wes, Barney, Herb, Tal, or Jimmy Raney for their pursuit of mastery of the sounds that Charlie Christian was engendering in the late-30s/early-40s. I absolutely love that music and those particular sounds, myself.

The stuff that came after, however, has been just as inspiring to me.

[mr. beaumont]

For giggles, I tried playing an old school tune and style with a more modern tone. I like it.