Why do jazz guitarists use small picks?

[MarkRhodes]

after a remark by philco on The Great Picking Thread - when you tilt this thing in the right way it makes the thickest pick in the world...

For those who don't immediately "see" this, when the pick is tilted and you are playing with the edge, the pick works like a thicker one because there's less "give" when you pick with the edge than with the face. My 2 cents.

[Silentwiz]

For about 10 years, I used Carol Kaye's pick (available inexpensively through her website):



Then I decided to go on ... the search ... I tried a bunch of D'Andrea picks, Fender picks, Dunlop picks, etc... I found that I connected best with the Jazz III XL:



I used it exclusively for about six months and then my thumb knuckle started acting up. Maybe I was squeezing it harder unconsciously? It's certainly thinner and more edged than the rounder edges of Carol Kayes.

So anyway, I went back to Carol Kaye's pick. Thumb issue gone. I don't think I feel quite as articulate but the knuckle pain sucked. The Carol Kaye pick is definitely a rounder mellower tone -- much stiffer and does not have the tapered edges of the XL III.

By the way, I found the proper smaller Jazz III to be too small and really plinky sounding to me.

[Chazmo]

I tried, and abandoned, little picks. The best I used were Jazz III. Now I use Jazz III XL. I guess I just like that larger standard Fender shape I grew up on.

[wintermoon]

I know it sounds like a setup for a bad joke, but...
Why do jazz guitarists use small picks?

to match their small pay

btw 2mm purple Dunlop's here

[Cunamara]

I used the standard Fender sized pick for over 30 years, for about 20 years the Dunlop 500 in 1.5 and finally settling on the D'Andrea ProPlec 1.5 mm pick as having the best tone. I used those for about 8 years. Then a couple of years ago I switched to the D'Andrea small ProPlec teardop pick. My hand was immediately much more relaxed with that sized pick especially with the Bickert-ish hybrid picking style I have developed. I have gone on to also use the Dunlop Ultex Jazz III, which is a translucent light amber material; those are rather hard to find in stores and quite hard to find when you drop them. But the tone is much better than the standard red or black Jazz IIIs. They feel great and are just a tich brighter than the ProPlec. I use the D'Andrea when I want a warmer, darker tone and the Jazz III when I want a little more snap and cut.

[entresz]

I use a Wegen Fatone pick (5mm thick) on my Gitane Maccaferri copy, my archtops, and my solid body electrics. I like the way that it glides over the strings and does not get stuck in between strings.

[Herbie]

I play jazz with the little ones because I play rock with the "standard" picks!

Once I recorded different picks and the little teardrop ones gave the warmest and thickest (stereotypically jazziest) sound.

Does anyone know what size pick did Charlie Christian use? Herb Ellis? Joe Pass? What kinda picks there were in the history of the jazz?

[Marty Grass]

About a year ago I started using a thumb pick. Here's my rationale.

I alternate between fingerstyle and picking. I don't like putting the pick in my mouth. Sounds petty, I know. But it looks goofy. I can't palm it and maintain hand dexterity. The same is true with tucking the pick between my fingers.

I very occasionally drop my pick. That stops the tune dead.

Hybrid picking takes the index finger out of action.


I didn't like thumbpicks because they didn't seem to have the versatility of angle of attack like a standard flat pick. Sometimes I'd like the tip of the pick to be more parallel to my thumb and sometimes more like a right angle. And sometimes I'd like only a small tip of the pick emerging between my thumb and index finger while other times I'd like more.

I tried using the Fred Kelly Bumblebee.


http://fredkellypicks.com/product/delrin-bumblebee-jazz/

Start this video at 2:15 to see the inventor demonstrate.

Using the pick did not feel natural at first. Soon it wasn't too bad. Now it is normal. It is easy to grip it like a regular flat pick, and that gives a lot of versatility in attack. But I can also let it go and it stays in position on my thumb.

The pick comes in thicknesses ranging from thin to extra heavy. I prefer heavy and extra heavy.

Elderly Instruments sells them for $3. Sometime they are on sale for $2.50. I've not been able to wear one out.

I was warned when I started using this pick that it will take about a year to adjust to it. I think it went a little faster. And it's easy to switch to a regular flat pick or full fingerstyle.

[Greentone]

Herb Ellis, who was a sensational picker, used the regular-sized Fender-style picks. Medium, I believe.

[Marty Grass]

Herb Ellis, who was a sensational picker, used the regular-sized Fender-style picks. Medium, I believe.

I had been using them since I was a kid, and I still do.

My teacher, who was a solo guitar player like Johnny Smith, made me use that pick. He explained it very simply: the thin pick is too thin and the heavy is too heavy. There really was only one left.

They are both good and cheap, and they come in various colors.

[Cunamara]

Joe Pass famously broke picks in half and used the smaller end. When asked he would say "I don't know, I've just always done that." Once at a gig Joe needed a pick and asked John Pisano for one. John slyly handed him a nylon pick...

[Klatu]

It's not just jazz guitarists who use small picks. There are plenty of shredders out there who favor small picks, with John Petrucci coming to mind.

[MatsP]

I used the standard Fender sized pick for over 30 years, for about 20 years the Dunlop 500 in 1.5 and finally settling on the D'Andrea ProPlec 1.5 mm pick as having the best tone. I used those for about 8 years. Then a couple of years ago I switched to the D'Andrea small ProPlec teardop pick. My hand was immediately much more relaxed with that sized pick especially with the Bickert-ish hybrid picking style I have developed. I have gone on to also use the Dunlop Ultex Jazz III, which is a translucent light amber material; those are rather hard to find in stores and quite hard to find when you drop them. But the tone is much better than the standard red or black Jazz IIIs. They feel great and are just a tich brighter than the ProPlec. I use the D'Andrea when I want a warmer, darker tone and the Jazz III when I want a little more snap and cut.

I would say that the Ultex Jazz IIIs sound rather dull, especially compared to the "standard" red or black Jazz IIIs. At least after the initial "burn-in". They are OK as mint.

[MatsP]

Herb Ellis, who was a sensational picker, used the regular-sized Fender-style picks. Medium, I believe.

He used a rather heavy teardrop shaped pick with a pointy tip, but I don't know the brand. Barney Kessel, on the other hand, used a pick with a rounded tip.

[princeplanet]

I use small a teardrop around 2mm, but I don't use the pointy end, just either of the rounded ends. Anyone else do this?

[docbop]

I'm kind of in-between I use large teardrops, got into them back in the 70's. I can use full size but they impede my movement. I also use the rounded side of the pick for rhythm a lot, a habit I developed back doing 16th note Funky rhythms.

[Para]

Herb Ellis said he used a hard pick about the size of a quarter with about a quarter of it sticking out and played at a slight angle across the strings.

[thrush40]

I disagree that size and style are not related. I think they can be. When I was learning a hybrid picking style (pseudo Merle Travis, by way of a really fab tele country genius teacher) I switched to the small teardrop shape. Ended up settling on Claytons (.94mm, but happy with 1 also). Never looked back. Not comfortable with anything else now. I guess that's for better or worse. Ha.

It's far easier to manipulate a small pick and adjust angle and string attack and, therefore, tone.

YMMMV.

Best,
Ben

[10course]

Small picks..... Glad to hear they are good for something. They have been absolutely useless to me for swing comping on an acoustic archtop.

[EpiJazz]

Small picks..... Glad to hear they are good for something. They have been absolutely useless to me for swing comping on an acoustic archtop.

As in strumming? Yeah, larger picks are better for that.

[mustafa3296]

Larger thin picks have a tendency to make more pick noise when playing chords and lines. Jazz guitarists are often after clean and pure tones which a small thick jazz pick is better suited for.

[docbop]

Actually for me after using large teardrop heavy picks since the Jurassic era of the 1970's I've switched back to use full size medium picks. Been using them a few months now since I've touched one of my teardrop heavies. I switched after noticing my previous teacher used full size mediums and a couple other guitarist I like, so the experiment has turned into a new preference. I was also in process of changing the angle I hold the pick too. I would recommend the same experiment with pick shape, size, and thickness and see what works for you. Let your ear and be the decision maker.

[jzucker]

jazz guitarists don't all use small picks. There is no one pick we use. I use large 346 picks and I know plenty of jazz guitarists who use bigger picks.

[John A.]

jazz guitarists don't all use small picks. There is no one pick we use. I use large 346 picks and I know plenty of jazz guitarists who use bigger picks.

I've been trying those a bit recently, but I think I'm going to give up. I can't quite get used to them after so long a time with the 351 size. I've tried a bunch of different sizes and shapes (the Pro Plec that's the same shape but smaller, the larger Gibson teardrop, various small tear drops, the big triangle ones ...) but I keep coming back to the 351 Heavy. Sort of like Bart Simpson and good old rock ...

John

[guido5]

I like Dunlop 204s, small, blunt, lovely dark tone. Second choice are 207s which have a similar tip with more to hold on to, but I don't get the same string feel with them...