Why do jazz guitarists use small picks?

[bbaquiran]

I know it sounds like a setup for a bad joke, but...

Why do jazz guitarists use small picks?

[mr. beaumont]

speed and accuracy...small pick forces you to be more precise too...less forgiving...

i use small ones (tortex jazz "green" whatever gauge that is...) but i know jazz players that use al different sizes...actually, the consistency between the picks is not size but thickness-- just about every jazz guy i know uses a heavy pick--for the same above reasons...

[seanlowe]

Also with a small/thick pick you have much more dynamic variation available to you, as there is less force lost between your fingers and the string!

[BlackZ]

sometimes I even play with a 5mm (!) "wegen" pick. it has a very interesting, smooth but bright sound. and its very easy to play fast lines (arpeggios in special) with that pick because you won't get caught inbetween strings... its especially great for gypsy stuff like django reinhardt, because it gives an uniqe strumming noise.





But normally, I play with dunlop jazz III (the very small ones). perfect control, good sound.

[ES-175]

I found your comments on picks and jazz guitar playing interesting. I really like the Dunlop jazz guitar picks. Also, I have been playing guitar for years and years and always used a pick. I actually liked the thin more flexible picks. Recently (last three years) I started playing/studying jazz. Many of the instructional videos show musicians playing with their fingers, thumb and pointer, middle and sometimes ring finger. I found it difficult at first but now I am playing exclusively with fingers. Many of the jazz solo arangements employ chords that have one or more strings deadend. With that occuring it seems easy to play just those strings that the notes are written for. With the thumb and first three fingers you can hit all strings. Even when a full chord is called for. Is this technique a good idea or not?

[aPAULo]

I know it sounds like a setup for a bad joke, but...
Why do jazz guitarists use small picks?

HAHAHAHA. It does sound like a setup.

Im not too picky with picks. But as said before, smaller picks help you pick more precisely. I dont like too thin of picks, im usually right in the middle. Thicker picks I feel are a little harder to maneuver with but its not that big of a deal for me.

And if im playing Wes music, I dont even use a pick!

[mr. beaumont]

I found your commets on picks and jazz guitar playing interesting. I really like the Dunlop jazz guitar picks. Also, I have been playing guitar for years and years and always used a pick. I actually liked the thin more flexible picks. Recently (last three years) I started playing/studying jazz. Many of the instructional videos show musicians playing with their fingers, thumb and pointer, middle and sometimes ring finger. I found it difficult at first but now I am playing exclusively with fingers. Many of the jazz solo arangements employ chords that have one or more strings deadend. With that occuring it seems easy to play just those strings that the notes are written for. With the thumb and first three fingers you can hit all strings. Even when a full chord is called for. Is this technique a good idea or not?

i don't think it's a bad idea at all. when i play chord melody, and when i comp, i use a pick/fingers combo. there are days when i set the pick aside completely, too.

[seanlowe]

A wooden pick gives you a really mellow sound aswell. You might be able to buy them, but i made a few in the DT department at school on a bandsaw, the same dimensions as 3mm stubbys

[griphon ii]

I use both flat and thumb picks, depending on situation, regardless of
type of music. For me, the key is thickness. 3mm or better. It's a
matter of roundness and tone. As a finger picker, as needed, keeping
the natural nail sound equivalent to the thumb or flat pick can be a problem.
Breakage, filing, etc. Inevitably, something goes wrong. Best to work both techniques evenly. I have yet to find a thumb pick I like. I have to doctor
every single one of them. Can be very frustrating and time consuming.

[PeteMoss]

I love using a thumbpick, but cannot seem to find one that works for me (most of them I feel stick out too far from the thumb, but I probably just suck), nor can I find any that are very thick. Any suggestions on where I can find some good ones/what brands?

[pete]

Over the last couple years I've gone from using a heavy "teardrop" pick to a standard size and shape (but still heavy) Dunlop Tortex - the purple ones, whatever thickness that is. Most of the reason was because it was getting harder and harder to find my old beloved teardrops.

I've also transitioned from an either/or picking (plectrum or fingers but not both) to combining fingers with pick, and using the larger pick makes that a lot easier. I can still choke up on it for speed and accuracy and have the full range of control from feather touch to string rattling. It was just a matter of getting used to the feel of the larger pick. Now I rather like them... but if I find somebody selling the Fender heavy teardrops some time, I'll likely stock up on them too.

Pat Metheny once said something to the effect that playing guitar is all about making and breaking habits, over and over again. Why not extend that to picking?

[griphon ii]

I believe I've found a thumb pick that is consistently stable. Dunlop, their heavy guage.

I've always used Dunlop teardrop flat picks, but not the teardrop end (pointed end).





Anyway, back to the thumb pick.

You'll have to buy a few and experiment. Buy 2 or 3 of each size. 1. One big problem with thumb picks is turning and/or sliding off. I get picks a size under or smaller than my thumb. Boiling makes the pick more malleable or pliant. 2. Thumb picks come with too much pick. Cut and file them down as if they were any other nail. I use a Dunlop teardrop rounded end as a guide for cutting and filing. Cut long at first. Trim and file as needed. The length is personal preference. Mine is very short. When on my thumb, one can barely see it. Once you have the pick the way you want it, maybe six experiments later, make a template!

I hope this helps.

[PeteMoss]

I will say that so far my favorite are the National brand thumbpicks (medium size). They seem to have less pick (i.e. less filing would be involved)...but the only store around my area that sold them went out of business. I just ordered a bunch online though. I may have to try filing them down just a little; thanks to you guys that mentioned that.

[West LA Jazz]

I have been wondering about this lately. I have been playing some jazz etudes to improve my right hand co-ordination. I have noticed that overall, a softer pick (for me) allows me latitude that harder picks initially won't (that is until I gradually adjust and or compensate to allow for the strings resistance to the way the harder pick makes contact with the string/s).

I also have to compensate slightly with amp and guitar tone settings.

I know Scofield uses a 1.00mm pick. I'm wondering if the hard pick had an initial advantage as the pick of choose for Jazz guitarists because of the limitations of amps and guitar pickups at the time.

I am working with a Dunlop 0.48 and it allows things that a 1.00mm will only allow with how I hold the pick (angle etc).

Any thoughts?

[ecj]

I've heard that Benson uses a standard teardrop shaped Fender medium. The brown ones that are supposed to look like a tortex. I think the thickness of those is around 0.7-0.8.

Joe Pass is reputed to have used a similar teardrop medium thickness pick that he would cut in half to make it smaller.

Metheny uses thin standard teardrop picks and uses the bigger round edge. He bends the pick using two of his fingers and thumb to give it more tension (make it, in effect, thicker).

Those are the only ones I know, other than that the gypsy guys use giant chunks of bone and wood and whatnot.

[mr. beaumont]

I think Kriesberg uses D'Andrea Pro-plecs...I remember reading that somewhere?



I never thought much about it. Funny, I'm sure I've thought about every other piece of gear that affects tone...with picks, I've always just gone with what I like personally--until I got into gypsy jazz...thn once I tried one of those much larger picks I knew it was a must for that style...it eventually carried over into my other playing--now I can't get comfortable with anything under 2mm, it seems...

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I had read someone (here?) that lots of people liked Dunlop Jazz IIIs (the little feller).

I got some recently. I usually use thicker picks (the 3mm Big Stubbies). I like the feel of the Jazz IIIs, even though they are awfully pointy, but they sound "thin" on the unwound strings -- I figger that's a result of the pointiness. I tried flipping the pick around and that was just weird.

[David B]

I think Kriesberg uses D'Andrea Pro-plecs...I remember reading that somewhere?

Spent a week with JK in the summer and you're right. He trims them down a bit.

[Jehu]

I had read someone (here?) that lots of people liked Dunlop Jazz IIIs (the little feller).

I got some recently. I usually use thicker picks (the 3mm Big Stubbies). I like the feel of the Jazz IIIs, even though they are awfully pointy, but they sound "thin" on the unwound strings -- I figger that's a result of the pointiness. I tried flipping the pick around and that was just weird.

Did you try the black or red ones? I find the black ones to be a lot brighter/sharper sounding; I think the red are made of a softer plastic, and it mellows and thickens things up quite a bit.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Did you try the black or red ones? I find the black ones to be a lot brighter/sharper sounding; I think the red are made of a softer plastic, and it mellows and thickens things up quite a bit.

That could be it. I thought they were the same and just got black ones. I need to try reds, too.

[mr. beaumont]

That could be it. I thought they were the same and just got black ones. I need to try reds, too.

I used to use Jazz III's for a while, maybe 8 years ago or so...I had reds and blacks, didn't notice much difference in tone, did think the black ones were a little easier to hold on to...

I'm spoiled by a bigger pick now, I don't think I could hang on to them at all...to think at one time I used the little Fender jazz heavy teardrops...those things are TINY!

[Jehu]

I'm currently in the midst of experimenting with all things picking, and at the moment I've settled on the reds. With 2mm Stubbies currently holding second place.

[3625]

Spent a week with JK in the summer and you're right. He trims them down a bit.

David, did you notice how exactly he trims them? I'm interested because JK has one of the best right hand techniques going.

Re: OP - Maybe Scofield used 1.00mm in the past, but I've read he now uses Dunlop Delrin 2.00mm's. I think in recent years, most jazz guitarists have gone heavier it seems - 1.5mm and up - whereas in the past, medium (.73) to heavy (1.00) was probably more common. Robert Conti likes uber thin picks - .38 Dunlop nylons, and encourages his students to try them out.

[GuyBoden]

I like the sound of big thick heavy pick like this video:

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Robert Conti likes uber thin picks - .38 Dunlop nylons, and encourages his students to try them out.

I bought some of those just for "pinball wizard" and other bits of strumming insanity. I can imagine using them for single notes. Floppy!