-
Gravity and V picks 4mm 351 size....
-
11-22-2017 06:39 PM
-
Howdy all. I'm picking up a very old thread and I don't know who still comes by these parts, but I thought I would mention the Joe Petrucci Jazz III Ultex 1.5 pick. A profile that's just a little larger than the red Jazz III, which is the sweet spot for me because I find "normal" picks have too much real estate. I'm happy to have found this forum!
-
Great Wegen Gypsy Jazz alternative: Dunlop PrimeTone 477-507 (Classic Large Round Tip Pick 5.0mm).
Easier to find, for sure. The same basic shape, just a tad smoother and presumably a longer lasting material.
-
It depends on whether I play acoustic (rhythm) or amplified.
Back in the day I used Dunlop 205 (amplified) and 208 (Rhythm). However, I have developed osteoarthritis in my hands and tend to drop the smaller size. Now I use Dunlop Ultex 1.18mm standard size for amplified and Dunlop 208 for rhythm.
Some want to avoid pick noise as much as possible, but I like a certain amount of it. It helps the sound project better. And for rhythm playing (4-to-the-bar) the pick noise is an important part of the instrument tone. An acoustic rhythm guitar is more a part of the drum kit than it is a pretty sounding chord provider and if you omit the pick noise, it will be difficult to hear it. When you listen closely to Freddie Green, you'll hear how metallic and percussive his sound often is. (BTW, he started out as a banjo player). When playing 4-to-the-bar on an electric guitar, I use the thumb and brush the strings more than pick them in order to produce an airy "swish". A callous on the thumb helps that. Wes got that type of sound when he played rhythm. I find the sound to become too heavy and opulent when playing 4-to-the bar with a pick on an electric guitar.
-
In a thread about picks, this video shouldn't be left out:
Fast forward to 23:15. Also interesting is the part that starts at 13:00. A must watch for any Queen fan. Brian May is such a humble man.
-
Originally Posted by Apostata
-
Originally Posted by Apostata
-
I believe he uses a very thin pick. Originally Posted by pete
-
By his own admission his picking technique is less than optimal, but it's become a habit, but he is envious of more accomplished pickers like Martino. Originally Posted by Marcel_A
The story is that the music store in his home town only sold that one type of pick, so he made due with what was available. In order to make the thin pick "thicker", he presses into it with his thumb so that it becomes curved and thus less flappy.
The only top level guitar player that I'm aware of that uses thin picks for soloing by choice and not accident is non-jazzer Paul Gilbert that has switched to the orange 0.60 mm dunlops tortex after a decades of thick picks as he likes the "THWACK" sound they produce and is willing to accept a decline in shredding ability to get that
-
Interestingly enough, the DAndrea Pro Plecs are praised a lot in the jazz cycles. I love those picks, but they are nowhere to be found in Europe, been searching literally for months.. can't even order them from overseas..
I think larger picks are suitable for strumming, and you don't see much of that in jazz.. I prefer the normal 351 size.
-
Over 40 years of picking, I definitely went through some “small pick” periods. I have also tried a ridiculous variety of pick sizes, shapes, thicknesses, and materials - I even spent a solid couple of years playing without a pick at all, and still play often with just fingers - flesh only, no nails.
As some have mentioned, I think a lot of jazz players prefer small - and usually pointy - picks because they tend to play more surgically than strummers or rockers.
When I started to teach myself to play in the late ’70s, this was the only game in town, at least in my town:
For whatever reason, I only seemed to find white ones, not shell.
A few years later, I had my first lessons with a fantastic jazz guitarist - he introduced me to these - my first small pick - he gave me one and to get more I think I had to mail order them by the half-dozen from the Sam Ash (giant paper) catalog (sending a check through the mail!). I used these for several years - lots of jazzers and shredders love them:
Then, maybe mid-‘80s, I became obsessed with Jim Hall. Being a faithful reader of Guitar Player magazine - can you believe they had players like Ellis, Kessel, Pass, Farlow, Hall, and others on the COVER back then - in one issue they had a two-page spread of the picks of famous players. There was Jim Hall’s name and pick - another small one. So I went from the long period of no pick to this pick, a Fender 358 - smallest and pointiest pick I’ve ever used:
These are actually pretty darn good at helping you sound like Jim Hall. Country pickers like them too - if you do hybrid picking adding a couple of fingers, the 358 gives a nice precise attack while not getting in the way.
At some point I was playing a lot of non-jazz music and I found the little guy would fly out of my hand or get turned around, so I used a couple of slightly bigger sizes (but still smaller than standard) for several years:
The 354 on the left is bigger but nearly the same shape as the 358.
And this one was a bit wider - I used this shape a long time:
Then in the 2000s, the internet suddenly brought the wide world of picks to your screen and your doorstep, and I have to confess I think I tried EVERYTHING. No pics of picks for this long walk in the wilderness.
After all that, around 2010 I found myself with this between my thumb and index finger:
Haha - OK, not exactly that one. When I came back to the standard shape, I found that the Fender pick material seemed more rubbery than I recalled, not snappy - kinda dead. So I ordered up a bunch of 351s from various sites and manufacturers and the winner was:
These Italian picks had the best feel and sound to me and I bought a half gross and used them for years.
Note: I don’t use the pointy end of the standard pick, I use either of the two rounded sides - so I’ve gone from very pointy to no point! To my ear, the round side sounds fatter and rolls right through the string, if that makes sense.
I did take a side journey and got a couple of these - they are indestructible and it’s like having a 351 with no point, just the rounded sides all way ‘round:
But my current mainstay is this in extra heavy (at some point the Galli’s became hard to get):
These feel and sound better than Fenders, and again, I use the rounded sides. So really I’ve made a big circle - I can’t say it wasn’t fun!Last edited by BickertRules; 12-21-2020 at 05:04 PM.
-
I guess I'm not very adventurous. I started using Fender 358 medium in about 1970, because a player I admired and had a few lessons with used it. That's what I've used ever since. By the gross. And I like the way the tortoise matches the binding on my Lehmann.
That guy was also responsible for leading me to believe I could one day make a living playing jazz guitar. Hmmm... maybe I should try a different pick... :)
-
I use a mandolin pick by Golden Gate. It is similar to a Blue Chip in size but cheaper. Three rounded sides. Blue Chip has many sizes but also one similar to mine. I buy about 12$ worth at a time and get about 20. One trick I learned from Los Indios is to drill two small holes in a pick and tie a loop made of a rubber band around your finger to switch quickly between finger style and alternate picking. If I were rich I would use Blue Chip more but at about 35$ a pick I cant afford to lose too many. Physics tells me a slightly larger surface makes a bigger sound.
-
I've been using the black 1mm Dunlops forever but I haven't bought any for a while
My mandolin player keeps giving me his cast-off Davos picks as soon as they lose the sharp tip.
Plus my 50 year collection of random picks keeps me going
-
Interesting, that's the pick I use. Didn't realize that it was considered thin. Originally Posted by Lobomov
I use a white one.
Ibanez B1000PG-JB Paul Gilbert Signature set van 6 plectrums
-
I don't agree with the "accuracy" and "dynamics" comments. I play full-size (Fender 351) Dunlop Ultex picks, the "sharps" version. They are deadly accurate, and I have all the dynamic control I could want. I've tried playing with the smaller "jazz" picks, but I am not a fan of their size (I'm simply used to full-size picks), or their material (the red ones are nylon I think)
I think the shape of the pick and the material both matter more than the size. You definitely get a tonal change playing with the point or the shoulder, and some materials are definitely warmer/brighter than others. Makes much more difference than size.
-
Those are actually cool picks .. I like them in red tho Originally Posted by Marcel_A
Interesting, that's the pick I use. Didn't realize that it was considered thin.
I use a white one.
Ibanez B1000PG-JB Paul Gilbert Signature set van 6 plectrums
But the thing is .. Those are Paul's Ibanez signature picks, but he hasn't been using those for ages .. He plays the 0.60 mm dunlop tortex as said
Here is a 2011 interview where he mentions the 0.60 mm dunlop (at 14:05)
And here is a 2017 interview, where he just states that he is using a thin pick, but gives a few playing examples of why he likes it (8:20)
-
To change a light bulb? Originally Posted by bbaquiran
-
why do jazz guitarists use small picks ?
to keep the weight down ....
-
maybe the same reasons people want to be like someone else...
-
Used those forever until I discovered Primetones (205s for years). Prieviously I used the fat tear-drop Fender Extra-Heavy but they became hard to find locally. But those big purple dops get the job done and absolutely, positively, never, ever wear down, let alone out! Originally Posted by wintermoon
Last edited by citizenk74; 12-25-2020 at 03:24 PM. Reason: typo
-
Originally Posted by Apostata
-
Kind of like the 'why did the chicken cross the road' question!
Obviously. To get to the other side!
-
Nah. Originally Posted by skykomishone
-
Sigh.. artists.
From an engineering perspective it's a question of how much and what kind of force you apply from your fingers and wrist to get what you want happening on the strings. Just as a purely intuitive observation, small, stiff, skinny picks are articulated almost entirely by your finger and thumb with only a bit of wrist. Much less any forearm. And the pointy tip will stay around where you put it.
Subjectively, for my application they are mostly just good for arthritis. And dropping and losing.
A proper pick for me is at least 1.5mm and 3mm is better. And with enough real estate where you don't have to work so hard. A large, thick pick supports everything from jumping about arpeggios, single note leads and full strumming. On a tele, a gypsy jazz guitar, or an 18" archtop with .014's.
Of course, that's just me. You ultimately have to try every pick ever made for yourself. Probably several times.Last edited by Spook410; 12-26-2020 at 05:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
Looking for a artchtop
Today, 01:09 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos