My first archtop (new project)

[Travelrock]

Plastic binding is fairly easy to bend to fit f-holes, wood is difficult. I use a hair dryer to warm plastic and a hot pipe for wood…

Thank you for all the info. I like he result, is veryelegant. I definitely think I'm going to bind using the four layer b/w/b/w binding.

[Freeman Keller]

Thank you for all the info. I like he result, is veryelegant. I definitely think I'm going to bind using the four layer b/w/b/w binding.

A couple of things that might help. I use 0.060 for my body and neck binding and 0.020 for the purfling lines but I use all 0.020 for really tight curves like f-holes. Also if you glue just the very ends of your BWBW stack together you can then cut your miter with a sharp chisel. You'll have to do the other end after the stack has been glued in place - don't laminate the whole thing as each line will want to shift as you bend them into place. The miters are very tricky - mine are OK but not perfect.

[gitman]

I'd think about the type of finish you will choose : on a blonde guitar the f-holes contrast clearly without any binding while on a dark-ish sunburst they sometimes disappear. Just look at the early 16" Gibson L5 models : not much bling but they exude a simple elegance in perfect proportion. The decked-out guitars of later years were also often meant as show-pieces to dazzle the audience with multi-layered binding, pearl inlays, huge headstocks, etc. .... One prime example : the famous "Fin" D'Angelico , ordered specifically for the stun-effect by a pro musician who used it to perform in italian restaurants around NYC.
The same goes for the super-elaborate mandolins of the 17th and 18th century : the wealthy clients wanted show-pieces and the luthiers gladly obliged, showing off their inlaying-skills while raking in substantial upcharges ...

A good source : The Unique Guitar Blog: D'Angelico Guitars

Historical mandolins : Presbler 1769 – Woll Mandolinen


Have you considered cutting a partial facet on the edges (lacking a better description...) ? The slanted line will catch the light when the guitar is finished and add dimension - Bill Comins is one luthier who does this regularly.

[arno_byr]

Hello,
Congratulations for the soundboard, keep up the good work
If you take plastic bindings, which glue will you use (acetone or cyanoacrylate)?
For the second option, I advise you to use an activator on certain tasks when you need it to stick quickly (on the headstock for example it can help)
CYANOLIT(R) activateur spray- 200 ml

For binding the f-holes I m useless. The l7 don't have bindings on the f-hole and I don't have any experience of it. It seems a bit tricky, however.
Good luck the next adventures

[Travelrock]

A couple of things that might help. I use 0.060 for my body and neck binding and 0.020 for the purfling lines but I use all 0.020 for really tight curves like f-holes. Also if you glue just the very ends of your BWBW stack together you can then cut your miter with a sharp chisel. You'll have to do the other end after the stack has been glued in place - don't laminate the whole thing as each line will want to shift as you bend them into place. The miters are very tricky - mine are OK but not perfect.

Ok, thank you. I will use similar thickness for purfling and binding. My binding material come alteady glued together. I will try bend it, if I have problem I have veneer but is a bit thicker. You say you use CA to glue the f holes binding, do you dilue with water your self? How do yo apply?

[Travelrock]

Hello,
Congratulations for the soundboard, keep up the good work
If you take plastic bindings, which glue will you use (acetone or cyanoacrylate)?
For the second option, I advise you to use an activator on certain tasks when you need it to stick quickly (on the headstock for example it can help)
CYANOLIT(R) activateur spray- 200 ml

For binding the f-holes I m useless. The l7 don't have bindings on the f-hole and I don't have any experience of it. It seems a bit tricky, however.
Good luck the next adventures

Thank you very much for the tip, I will look this activateur!

[Freeman Keller]

Ok, thank you. I will use similar thickness for purfling and binding. My binding material come alteady glued together. I will try bend it, if I have problem I have veneer but is a bit thicker. You say you use CA to glue the f holes binding, do you dilue with water your self? How do yo apply?

I have experimented with different adhesives for bindings including acetone, plastic dissolved in acetone, Ducco cement, and wood glues (on wood binding). I have settled on one glue and one method of installing binding which works for plastic, wood, and fiber purfling. I route the channels as usual and take the time to get the binding and all purfling to fit perfectly without any adhesives. Bend the wood if necessary, warm the plastic if it needs it to fit tight curves. Tape it in place leaving gaps of about an inch between pieces of tape. Use clamps and cauls if necessary at places like the waist. The important thing is to have it perfect.

Then I put a drop of water thin CA glue (StewMac #10 or equivalent) on the seam between binding and wood between each piece of tape. The water thin glue is pulled into the seam by capillary action. The idea is to "tack weld" the binding in place, I can remove the tape and then run a bead of the thin CA all the way around the seam. I use a little plastic pipette to apply the glue and apply it to both the top and side seam. If I have fiber purfling lines the CA will saturate them glue everything in place. If I have a pesky part of the binding I might use a piece of UHMW to press it in place and shoot a little accelerator on the CA but otherwise I do not use accelerator (it can make the glue appear white).

I try to be careful about getting the CA on the spruce or other wood but it does seem to scrape and sand off without affecting finish. Remember that some people use CA as a pore filler - it does not seem to stand out like some of the other glues (AR and acetone) do - one of the things I like about it.

This method completely avoids the hassle of trying to tape binding into place after applying glue, you can take your time and get it right. The water thin CA is a very good glue for reattaching old binding that has come loose - I have repaired several vintage guitars with it.

I like to install binding and purfling standing a few thousands proud of the top and as close to flush with the side. I can scrape the binding back flush with a sharp scraper. A few pictures from my last guitar





(I'm sensitive to CA and always wear a respirator when I work with it)



Finished with a very light burst

[Travelrock]

Dear Freeman Kelker, thank you very much for the detailed reply on your binding method. Is very inspirating and I can get sone useful ideas from your description and your pictures.

I like the finish of your last guitar!

[thelostboss]

I have an Ibanez SJ300 finished in their "Dark Violin Sunburst" colour with contrasting light maple bindings and darker purfling. The one thing that lets it down aesthetically from my viewpoint is the lack of binding on the F-holes. It gets away with it only because I can't see them while playing it, but it always lets me down when I se it on a stand. This means that I am on the side of dark finish then bind the f-holes, blonde finish it may be debatable.

[Travelrock]

I have an Ibanez SJ300 finished in their "Dark Violin Sunburst" colour with contrasting light maple bindings and darker purfling. The one thing that lets it down aesthetically from my viewpoint is the lack of binding on the F-holes. It gets away with it only because I can't see them while playing it, but it always lets me down when I se it on a stand. This means that I am on the side of dark finish then bind the f-holes, blonde finish it may be debatable.

Interesting. I have decided binding the F-holes in my guitar. Now I’m doing test with different glues (CA and hot glue).

[Travelrock]

Hello,

I use cedar for classical neck and neckblock. In this archtop I have done the neck and heel with maple.

What is your prefered wood type for the archtop neckblock, considerating the mortise tenin joint?

Thank you for your tips.

[Freeman Keller]

Hello,

I use cedar for classical neck and neckblock. In this archtop I have done the neck and heel with maple.

What is your prefered wood type for the archtop neckblock, considerating the mortise tenin joint?

Thank you for your tips.

Remember that I have only built a couple of true archtops - most of my guitars are flat topped and I use mahogany for all the steel string necks and Spanish cedar for the nylon. All of my head and tail blocks have been mahogany, I have a lot of it and it works nicely. I do dovetail joints where they make sense - f-hole guitars for sure because there is no access to bolts inside the guitar. I have used dovetails, bolted M&T and Spanish heels for flat topped guitars, Gibson style set necks for most of my electrics.

I somewhat regret not using maple for the neck of my hollow bodied electric but I probably still would have made the block out of mahogany.

I think you can make a strong case for several different woods

[arno_byr]

Hello,
Mahogany is usually used for the blocks, but you can use Spruce either. It's what benedetto says in its book, if I remember well.
Best regards

[Travelrock]

Remember that I have only built a couple of true archtops - most of my guitars are flat topped and I use mahogany for all the steel string necks and Spanish cedar for the nylon. All of my head and tail blocks have been mahogany, I have a lot of it and it works nicely. I do dovetail joints where they make sense - f-hole guitars for sure because there is no access to bolts inside the guitar. I have used dovetails, bolted M&T and Spanish heels for flat topped guitars, Gibson style set necks for most of my electrics.

I somewhat regret not using maple for the neck of my hollow bodied electric but I probably still would have made the block out of mahogany.

I think you can make a strong case for several different woods

Thank you! I agree with your opinion on the use of this woods. I like to work mahogany, but I have used a nice cut of Spanish cedar for the neckblock. I hope the dovetail joint work whith cedar.

[Travelrock]

Hello,
Mahogany is usually used for the blocks, but you can use Spruce either. It's what benedetto says in its book, if I remember well.
Best regards

Thank you! I like mahogany, but the mahogany that I have available is a bit heavy (african mahogany?). I have choosen Spanish cedar for the block. I hope resist the dovetail joint!

[Freeman Keller]

Thank you! I like mahogany, but the mahogany that I have available is a bit heavy (african mahogany?). I have choosen Spanish cedar for the block. I hope resist the dovetail joint!

Benedetto does say that lighter woods including spruce and even bass wood and willow can be used. I just have lots of cut off mahogany and I use that for all kinds of bits and pieces. I see no reason why Spanish cedar won't make a fine neck and tail block.

[Travelrock]

Benedetto does say that lighter woods including spruce and even bass wood and willow can be used. I just have lots of cut off mahogany and I use that for all kinds of bits and pieces. I see no reason why Spanish cedar won't make a fine neck and tail block.

I think an advantage of Spanish cedar is its ease of carving. I have in the workshop a hard mahogany, carving the dovetail joint would be more laborious on this wood.

[arno_byr]

Nice historical archtops for the motivation...

[Travelrock]

Thank you very much for the link. I have enjoyed it a lot. The D'Angelicos are precisely the archtops that I like the most, I think they are at the pinnacle of instrumental design of all time (it's a personal opinion). I like the sound of the fourth guitar much more, for me it is the perfect sound, Thank you!

[arno_byr]

To my taste, the first and older one sounds incredibly dry, bright yet rich harmonically and loud acoustically, with less bling also, considering its design. The perfect blend for an archtop tone, I think.
I hope you 're doing well with your build. Keep up the good work!

[Travelrock]

To my taste, the first and older one sounds incredibly dry, bright yet rich harmonically and loud acoustically, with less bling also, considering its design. The perfect blend for an archtop tone, I think.
I hope you 're doing well with your build. Keep up the good work!

Thanks! The construction of the guitar is going well! Right now I have the neck ready to sand the edges of the headstock and drill the holes for the tuning machines. The top has the bars finished and I'm in the tedious moment of binding the F holes. I have the sides glued together with the two blocks and the reinforcements finished, waiting to glue the back and then the cover. I am very satisfied with the progress, every day I dedicate some time to it. Enclose some pictures.

[arno_byr]

Very good

[arno_byr]

This one sounds awesome.

[2bornot2bop]

Nice historical archtops for the motivation...

He’s one fabulous player!

[skykomishone]

Fyi..,
The CA activator is Isopropyl alcohol. I use the 70% in a small spray bottle. I expect other alcohol will work. I haven't tried vodka!