Cleaning old Gibson tuners - need help

[brewster]

Hi,
just got a '33 gibs archie. the rivited tuners are VERY hard to turn, such that i'm worried about breaking a cog gear tooth.
i removed one tuner and laboriously hand cleaned the cog teeth and valleys, and after a touch of some dry teflon, it works much better.

is there some known technique for a faster cleaning out of the old crud in the worm gear and cog gear?
thanks, brewster

[Hammertone]

If they are old riveted ones, your existing method is pretty much it.

[AllanAllen]

I did this on my lap steel tuners and it helped. They’re still a pain to tune.

Mod Garage: Restoring Vintage Guitar Tuners - Premier Guitar

[garybaldy]

I used white vinegar on some 60s Hofner tuners. It cleaned them up nicely but they were still quite hard to turn, even with a trace of sewing machine oil put on after.

[Stefan Eff]

A picture would be very helpful.
White vinegar and naphta for cleaning with a medium toothbrush are best. I wouldn‘t use Teflon or silicone based products. In europe we‘ve got „Ballistol“, a fantastic oil for all cleaning AND lubrication needs. Vaseline for lubrication works also great.

[GuyBoden]

Then, on going, regular guitar maintenance, you've got to "Oil them exposed Worms".

[Rodney Gene]

Restoration work is always worth the slow and steady method. Anything is liable to snap or crack and at some point it probably will. Keep at the pace you are working -

Having the piece in hand is easier, enough experiences you can intuitively evaluate or sense what the risks are. But even a slight over confidence will cost you if you rush.

Not knowing the condition of the guitar, it may not be a possibility for you, but with some vintage instruments, something as relevant as tuners can be managed with non invasive replacements. It is a smart option in my experience. The originals can be preserved for future sale if it is a value issue. I do have one vintage that I cannot find original tuner replacements for and the tuners could use it. It doesn't get played much because of it.

[Stefan Eff]

Restoration work is always worth the slow and steady method. Anything is liable to snap or crack and at some point it probably will. Keep at the pace you are working -

Having the piece in hand is easier, enough experiences you can intuitively evaluate or sense what the risks are. But even a slight over confidence will cost you if you rush.

Not knowing the condition of the guitar, it may not be a possibility for you, but with some vintage instruments, something as relevant as tuners can be managed with non invasive replacements. It is a smart option in my experience. The originals can be preserved for future sale if it is a value issue. I do have one vintage that I cannot find original tuner replacements for and the tuners could use it. It doesn't get played much because of it.

Exactly, I couldn‘t agree more. For sure a set of Waverlys or Schaller Grandtune will fit the originals. You‘ll get a much improved tuning experience on top.

[Hammertone]

Exactly, I couldn‘t agree more. For sure a set of Waverlys or Schaller Grandtune will fit the originals. You‘ll get a much improved tuning experience on top.

The screw holes for the old Grover open-back tuners with riveted shafts do not line up with those of the new Grover, Waverly, Gotoh or Schaller vintage-Grover-style open-back tuners. It’s easy enough to fill the original holes and drill new holes, but worth considering how this process might affect the value of the instrument.

[Stefan Eff]

The screw holes for the old Grover open-back tuners with riveted shafts do not line up with those of the new Grover, Waverly, Gotoh or Schaller vintage-Grover-style open-back tuners. It’s easy enough to fill the original holes and drill new holes, but worth considering how this process might affect the value of the instrument.

Ok that’s true- drilling new holes isn’t the best idea on a vintage Instrument.
In this case I would remove them, clean the dirt off with a toothbrush and naphta followed by white vinegar. Maybe they‘ll need to take a bath in naphta. Try carefully to turn them back and forth, repeat the steps until they start to work. And I just found this video:

…and I would add an oil bath after they turn nice again, followed by a bit of vaseline.

[Cunamara]

I was going to suggest this video as well.

[stevo58]

Paul Hofstetter was a well-known luthier in the mandolin world. This article is specifically about mandolin tuners, which have a number of unique problems, but most of it is also applicable to guitar tuners. Replacing vintage mandolin tuners is a dicey operation, because they are always four-on-a-plate, the standard spacing changed in the 1920s, and only StewMac manufactures a correct replacement. Then there are the inlaid buttons.

Anyway, lots of solid info about cleaning, maintaining, and preserving vintage tuners here.

Reviving and maintaining old (and new) tuning machines

[brewster]

thanks to all for the suggestions and links. tuners doing better now. now in the shop for some regluing of the back plate at the neck and some binding repair work. then on to a needed refret.

as one has come to expect, hammer is filled with boundless knowledge.
he is correct that the baseplate screws in these old "clipped end" grover tuners are at a different spacing than the grover "pointed end" baseplate that came out a few yrs later, '35-'36 i'm thinking. the clipped end screw holes are about 4mm closer together.

also, the pointy end tuner baseplates are about 6mm longer than on the clipped end tuners. the ends of the clipped end tuners are about 5 mm apart so the pointy end tuners will not fit the space either as they are a tad to long.

one interesting tuner observation is that the guitar seems to be a transition piece in that 4 of the tuners have "grover" in a fine font along the side of the baseplate while 2 have "grover" in larger font btwn the cog gear and the baseplate screw. the larger font location is what i most often see.
any late 20's early 30's gibs owners have guitars with the small, lateral "grover"? just a bit of esoterica i guess.
thanks again, b