Reshaping neck on pre-war Gibson L-7

[Rickco]

I have a '42 L7 with a "beefy" neck. Id like to reduce thickness about 3-4mm. I have the skill to do the work (retired cabinetmaker) but no guitar knowledge. The truss rod has been tightened but still has movement, with 12-56 strings at pitch relief is a smidge at 6th, plays great. Its a lot more C shape than V. Overall thickness would be reduced .1-.2 with a little off the cheeks. My question is with the neck .93 - 1.05 as it is would removing this material risk neck warp? Imminently it probably wont happen but just in case I get motivated....

[omphalopsychos]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of people asking you not to do that to a vintage guitar. I'll be one of them but also offer an alternative. Sometimes the thing that makes the neck feel hard to play is actually the frets. Taller frets tend to require less effort on the fretting hand and this may give you some relief. Consider making this change instead of modding the neck. My 36 DAngelico Excel has an enormous neck (> 1" at 1st fret), and it's actually one of the most comfortable guitars for me, thanks to the great refret by Norio Imai.

[ThatRhythmMan]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of people asking you not to do that to a vintage guitar. I'll be one of them but also offer an alternative. Sometimes the thing that makes the neck feel hard to play is actually the frets. Taller frets tend to require less effort on the fretting hand and this may give you some relief. Consider making this change instead of modding the neck. My 36 DAngelico Excel has an enormous neck (> 1" at 1st fret), and it's actually one of the most comfortable guitars for me, thanks to the great refret by Norio Imai.

I second this wholeheartedly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AllanAllen]

If you want a modern neck, buy a modern guitar. Don’t ruin an 83 year old one. Or at least get a Kay to practice on first.

Also, yes, it’s going to risk neck warp. So even if you do it well, you can still ruin the guitar.

[Rickco]

Thanks to all of you! Its actually quite playable as is, had a refret "recently" but replaced with stock frets. Actually it is more general curiosity about these kinds of mods, as I mentioned former cabinetmaker with just enough skill to ruin something outside my knowledge and not realize it until done (but i guarantee it would look good) thanks for the reality check.

[garybaldy]

Thanks to all of you! Its actually quite playable as is, had a refret "recently" but replaced with stock frets. Actually it is more general curiosity about these kinds of mods, as I mentioned former cabinetmaker with just enough skill to ruin something outside my knowledge and not realize it until done (but i guarantee it would look good) thanks for the reality check.

Please stick to cabinets!!

[omphalopsychos]

FWIW you could also buy an early 60s Gibson L7C. There was one for sale on this forum a year or so ago that seemed wonderful but sold at a very low price because the neck was too slim.

[Hammertone]

... I have the skill to do the work (retired cabinetmaker) but no guitar knowledge. ... Overall thickness would be reduced .1-.2 with a little off the cheeks. ...

Lesson #1: They're called shoulders, not cheeks.

[Jabberwocky]

I am sure you make beautiful cabinets. I am sure you would make great guitars if you grabbed a copy Bob Benedetto's Making an Archtop Guitar. You could be like Neil Palen. Practise on a guitar you make from scratch but not on this grand old dame, please. Even if you don't give a damn about the L7 I am sure you give a damn about money. Or your beneficiaries do. You are going to severely devalue it. Your wife and children are a-gonna cuss like a sailor when you are six feet under or a pile of ashes.

For the love of all that is decent please don't practise on the Gibson 1942 L-7. It survived 83 years. Please don't be the one. We are merely stewards of these grand old instruments.

Sell it and buy another L-7 modified and devalued by some bonehead; they are out there. Don't add one more to this pile, please.

[customxke]

*wartime

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The truss rod has been tightened but still has movement,

I agree with those advising against this. But apart from that, I don’t see why skillful reshaping of the neck would increase the risk / likelihood of warping. Those L7s with thinner factory fitted necks aren’t warping, so why should this one?

I assume the line I quoted above means that the truss rod works and is not bottomed out. If there’s frank movement of the rod despite a tight adjusting nut, there’s a problem with it.

[AllanAllen]

I agree with those advising against this. But apart from that, I don’t see why skillful reshaping of the neck would increase the risk / likelihood of warping. Those L7s with thinner factory fitted necks aren’t warping, so why should this one?

I assume the line I quoted above means that the truss rod works and is not bottomed out. If there’s frank movement of the rod despite a tight adjusting nut, there’s a problem with it.

It's settled in over 83 years, removing material will increase the risk of warping over doing nothing. You don't get a crack in the windshield from every pebble that hits it, but it just takes one pebble to get a crack in your windshield. Get it?

[BBGuitar]

Go ahead and do it.

Then it will be in the price range the rest of us can afford.

Sell it and buy an Eastman of Loar.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

It's settled in over 83 years, removing material will increase the risk of warping over doing nothing. You don't get a crack in the windshield from every pebble that hits it, but it just takes one pebble to get a crack in your windshield. Get it?

Actually, I don't - and I'm not convinced that your analogy is valid. If you're suggesting that reshaping the neck will somehow affect the molecular equilibrium of the wood, I know of no evidence of or factual basis for this belief. Wooden objects of all kinds are routinely reshaped and resurfaced for many reasons, from correcting the ravages of time and poor care (like warping, splitting, surface / structural damage) to repurposing.

I've owned a few guitars whose necks had been reshaped, and there was no evident problem with any of them. One in particular was a real Frankenbox - a 1950 L-50 with a very well done Florentine cutaway added and the neck shaved. I bought it for next to nothing at a guitar show in the late 1980s because it sounded fantastic. I sold it 7 or 8 years later once I'd switched to 7 strings, and it was still as stable and wonderful a guitar as it was when I got it.

There are many luthiers who do this regularly. A few (e.g. Vintage Parlor Guitars, Highline Guitars, Haywire Guitars) market reshaping, shaving, and profiling necks as a specific buisness line. Here's what Steve Chipman (the luthier at Vintage Parlor Guitars) says about it:

"The reshaping of any guitar neck is very personal to the fretting hand that the reshaping is being done for. I can't speak to the finished 'benefit' of the reshaping exercise but I can tell you that the physical task of reshaping the neck is not terribly difficult. I've done enough neck reshaping myself to work free hand using feel as my guide but there are templates available designed to make the job a bit less creative and more specific if that would help. The important thing is to take baby steps and and let your fretting 'road test' the changes at various stages of the job to determine when and where to stop."

[Rickco]

My question was partly academic although a light reshape could improve comfort. I wouldnt risk it on this guitar but I have considered it a few times on others. The responses are very informative, thanks.

[ArchieHollow]

FWIW you could also buy an early 60s Gibson L7C. There was one for sale on this forum a year or so ago that seemed wonderful but sold at a very low price because the neck was too slim.

This suggestion makes more sense.

[Rickco]

This has been a more informative response than I anticipated. I see it as several considerations, primarily would the reshaping make the neck "unstable" based on the experience of the members here. The question of modifying a "collectable?" somewhat iconic prewar archtop. First concern was easy, not worth the risk. The second question is more interesting. Are old archtops really collectible? Theres no shortage of L5s and L7s for sale right now most of them sitting for months or years. Does the current generation of guitar consumers have the nostalgia for them and would be willing to pay the price considering in many cases they could have something made or new as good or better. The concept of "Im just the custodian of this fine instrument till it goes to the next guy" is true of rare extremely fine instruments but...theres no shortage of old L** whatevers, they were a production instrument. I dont see guitars as an investment, I buy them to play them not to re sell them and expect to possibly lose a little if I decide to sell, I consider it part of the cost of the adventure. Im not modifying my 7 It sounds and plays great, Id like to play a short scale 7,10,12 just to see and if it fit better Id think about parting with my current 7 for funding (probably not going to happen) at this point I look to experts like TRM

[AllanAllen]

I think the production numbers are lower than you are thinking. From another thread

Not really relevant to how many they've been making in the last 25 yrs, but in the 50s to mid 60s electric Supers and L-5's were usually around 25-40 for each model, sunburst/blonde combined w a few yrs less or more.

The late 60s saw an increase to around 50-60, spiking @ 165 in '69, then dipping to 50-100 during the 70s w another spike of 247 in '79.

When production resumed on the newer models in the late 80's production was very small, in the single digits for each model. No info available aftetward.

But if I had to guess I'd say 30-50 each model annually from the 90s onward.

[ArchieHollow]

When we were kids back in early '70s my younger brothers and I shared a '50s Kay arch top. It had a monster-fat neck and it was hard to finger cords.
So I whittled it down to be more like my, then, newly acquired '42 Gretsch New Yorker; which had a slim C to D profile as an original instrument.

[jazzloverfat]

Even if you don't give a damn about the L7 I am sure you give a damn about money. Or your beneficiaries do. You are going to severely devalue it. Your wife and children are a-gonna cuss like a sailor when you are six feet under or a pile of ashes.
For the love of all that is decent please don't practise on the Gibson 1942 L-7. It survived 83 years. Please don't be the one. We are merely stewards of these grand old instruments.

I'm sorry, but to me this is so much nonsense... it is his guitar to do as he pleases with and by the looks of it he is a player not some crypto investor collecting trophies... Even classical instruments get modified to suit the needs of the current owner - and these are proper old things - why would guitars be treated differently?
Ofc. don't do it as a practice run, and let a pro work on it lol .

I know a few people who buy watches or collect vinyls and keep them under lock and key or sealed in their sleeves for something something "value" and posterity and heirloom. I don't get this idea of buyin or owning something and not enjoying it... Maybe I'm still young/immature/whatevs, but when I'm dead who cares what happens with my things, it's not that I'll be around anymore to care or be able to enjoy them.

[garybaldy]

This is probably ok (unless it's a '59).

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

This is probably ok (unless it's a '59).

If it were a ‘59, it’d be a holey grail

[Rickco]

This is probably ok (unless it's a '59).

Thats hilarious, I was thinking of doing the same thing to an old epi EBO bass, but its a piece of crap that cost me nothing and other than the short scale neck thats what its worth...getting out my 2/1/2" forstener today!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

getting out my 2/1/2" forstener today!

Be careful - once bit, twice shy.

[garybaldy]

Thats hilarious, I was thinking of doing the same thing to an old epi EBO bass, but its a piece of crap that cost me nothing and other than the short scale neck thats what its worth...getting out my 2/1/2" forstener today!

Are you a cabinet maker?