Toggle Switch Trouble - a quest for advice.

[DonEsteban]

Again and again I have problems with the toggle switch in one of my guitars. It's a Yamaha SA2200 semi hollow guitar. Every few months (sometimes even weeks) one position doesn't work, for example the neck pickup remains silent. I then take the switch out through the sound hole and carefully clean the contacts with a strip of paper dipped in alcohol. That helps only until it happens again.

I've installed new switches (currently it's the 3rd or maybe even 4th switch AFAIR) but it still happens even with these new switches.

I have two other semis (D'Angelico and Mensinger, Poland) and this has never happened to them.

I'm a bit confused, I can't keep installing new switches all the time....

Anyone got any ideas?

[Tal_175]

Perhaps the problem is loose connections with the pots. Resoldering those connections may be needed.

[sgosnell]

The reeds can oxidize if they just sit open. Some switches are better about this than others. The reeds on some switches are weak, and if left in position where they're kept open, they don't spring back fully when engaged. Yet another reason to have only one pickup. I tend to leave the switch in the center position on the guitar I have with two pickups when it's not in use, just to try to prevent the above.

[garybaldy]

You need to keep the switch in the middle position when not in use. No strain on the springs.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Again and again I have problems with the toggle switch in one of my guitars. It's a Yamaha SA2200 semi hollow guitar. Every few months (sometimes even weeks) one position doesn't work, for example the neck pickup remains silent. I then take the switch out through the sound hole and carefully clean the contacts with a strip of paper dipped in alcohol. That helps only until it happens again.

To be clear, it's not always the same position that doesn't work? So sometimes, the neck pickup is out and sometimes the bridge pickup is out? Are there times when neither has output? I assume it hasn't always been like this. Had you done anything to the guitar before the first time it happened?

I can't imagine that 3 new switches have all gone bad. My bet is that it's the wiring. Depending on how it's wired ('50s, '60s, "modern", etc), it could be a bad common ground, a bad solder joint at one of the pot lugs, etc. The switch is close to the pots, so the shield on one of the pickup leads or even the bridge ground wire could be shifting around and intermittently contacting one of the switch lugs. You need to look inside with a bore scope or similar tool.

The best approach if you can't find anything is to remove the entire harness with pots and switches and check it all. You'll probably find the problem somewhere in there. If all looks fine, reflow all of the grounded solder joints that have wires from both pickups in them.

[Al Haig]

^ This. When it cuts out, check to see if it's the entire signal cut out or only 1 position. This will help you narrow down whether the whole signal is getting grounded out somewhere or you're losing full connection from a cold solder joint or something, or if it's the switch mechanism itself. Ultimately tho, you're going to have to check the whole circuit since it's probably something besides the mechanism of the switch since you've replaced it several times, but that possibility still can't be ruled out.

[sgosnell]

One thing that used to fool me is that some wiring schemes (ES175, for example) kill the entire signal if one of the volume knobs is at or near zero and the switch is on that pickup or on both. Killing everything when the switch is set to both seems odd to me, but that's how it works, at least on mine. More than once I thought the switch was defective because there was zero audio when the switch was in the middle position. Now I like the feature, because it gives me a kill switch by just flipping the switch to center. I almost never use the bridge pickup so I keep that volume at zero, and thus have a handy way of killing the audio quickly and easily.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

it's probably something besides the mechanism of the switch since you've replaced it several times, but that possibility still can't be ruled out.

With all due respect, it can be ruled out. He’s on switch #3 or 4 now. The odds that 3 or more new switches all failed independently in the exact same way are essentially zero. The cause has to be elsewhere. If all the switches failed, there’s a cause somewhere else. I suspect that the switches are all fine, and removing them to clean the contacts shifted the offending part(s) enough for a temporary fix.

I’d have suggested that the switch mount is canted or improperly installed, eg the hole was drilled at an angle or the inside of the top is not flat and perpendicular to the axis of the switch. If that’s the case, the securing nut would pull on the switch at an angle and there’d be pressure only on one side, possibly causing the mechanism to twist or distort enough to prevent the contacts from closing, or perhaps shorting them. But if that were the problem, it would always be the same pickup that’s out and the OP says it may be either one.

Although unlikely, the switch hole could even be too close to the center block, causing the block to contact and press on the switch mechanism. The likely location of the problem is the wiring, pots etc and the entire harness plus pots and bridge ground need to be inspected.

[Al Haig]

I agree. A switch isn't going to fail mechanically 4 times in a row, while something can be pressing on it or grounding it out. But still the rest of the circuit might be more likely to contain the problem.

[pingu]

I agree. A switch isn't going to fail mechanically 4 times in a row, while something can be pressing on it or grounding it out. But still the rest of the circuit might be more likely to contain the problem.

agreed ….

I’ve had a similar intermittent problem
that by changing various componants
and resoldering various connections
I’ve mistakenly thought I had ‘fixed’ many many times

I empathise man , it’s so annoying

My last ‘fix’ was re-making the pu connections to the Vol pot

seems ok for now …. but I’ve
said that before

best of luck with it

[DonEsteban]

First of all, thanks for all the comments.

Now, following your suggestion, I've checked the guitar's electronics. But everything is fine, no loose connections, no cold solder joints, everything is as it should be.

I suspect that it really is dirt. (Open kitchen in the same room?)

There could be worse....

At least I now know there's no point in changing the switch over and over again, just clean it and it's fine.

[ruger9]

I have this issue, it's a Switchcraft Gibson Les Paul-style toggle. I remedy it by shooting contact cleaner into the switch and moving the switch back & forth several times. Seems to fix the problem for a couple of months. And this is the 2nd swtich in this guitar to do it: the original switch did it so I replaced it... when the replacement switch started doing it, I just gave up LOL. The contact cleaner works, I'll just keep using it.

Why it's only THIS guitar I have no idea (I have 2 other guitars with these same toggle in them, and they never have issues.)