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It was a short one, but very interesting. I'm not sure if you guys know who he is but check him out. He's really well known around LA area. One of the things he taught me I though I'd share with you guys is this little ii V I progression. This will also help me remember it.
ii: Dm7b5+11 or Fm13
EBGDAE: 3 3 5 6 x x
V7: G7#5#9 or Bb7susb9
6 6 8 9 x x
I: Cmaj7#11
7 7 9 10 x x
So it's all the same chord, but just brought up a minor 3rd and then up a half step. What's cool about it is how that shape can be 5 different chords essentially. Good way to spice up chord melodies. Enjoy
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02-10-2010 10:31 PM
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Lucky you. Several years ago when Ron came back to his hometown of Houma Louisiana to visit his family, he did a seminar at a local music store.
Then that evening he played at a restaurant with a couple of guys from New Orleans. THe bass player was Jim Sinigleton, and the drummer was Johnny Vidacovich.
At the seminar Ron told a story about one of his students. The guy couldn't grasp what Ron was trying to teach him. Ron tells the guy, "Look, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this". The guy replies, "But Ron, I AM a rocket scientist."
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Also, ask Ron when will he be coming back home to visit and perhaps do another seminar or play.
I don't know if Ron remembers a guitar player by the name of Frank Ball. But Frank is back home here in Houma and plays at a local restaurant every Friday and Saturday.
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02-11-2010, 09:09 AM #4jeffstocksmusic Guest
OSH,
Are you studying w/ him full-time or was this just a one-off lesson?
Having access to a player the level of Ron is a HUGE blessing. I know he knows his stuff and if his books are any indication, he has a knack for teaching. I'd love to sit across from him for a few years and rob him blind of his knowledge!
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So true. Ron is a monster. Would need to have plenty of time between lessons though to absorb what was covered though.
Originally Posted by jeffstocksmusic
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Is that how Ron writes it? I don't want to nitpick, but everywhere else I've seen this notation, it's ordered the opposite way, bass-to-treble: Originally Posted by On Sugar Hill
ii: Dm7b5+11 or Fm13
xx6533
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Full time. I will certainly have more stuff to share in coming weeks. I study as Jazz performance major at CSULB, where Ron teaches. I certainly do feel blessed to have the ability to study with him. If you guys have anything you want me to ask him about playing, I certainly won't mind especially since it'll teach me stuff. As long as I'm at CSULB though, I will be studying with Ron Originally Posted by jeffstocksmusic
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He didn't really write it. Just kinda showed it to me. I never really write or read tab anymore so I couldn't remember the proper etiquette. I'll watch for that next time though, thanks. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Thanks a lot. Very interesting! I don't have teachers like that living in my area, so please continue to post a bit or two Originally Posted by On Sugar Hill
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Like PaulD, I was at GIT when Ron was teaching there, and we became friends and shared a ride to school and back. Ron is an excellent teacher and really does know his stuff. During that year at GIT, I spent many, many hours with Ron and was able to help him notate his first chord melody book. I can tell you he is one of the nicest people in the jazz guitar music business and without a doubt, a true master 7-string guitarist.
wiz
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Geez, you lucky guy. That'll get you a big leg up.
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I went home and tried those 2-5-1 chords. Nice! To me, it sounds like something Bill Evans would play. I like how the 5->1 slides up a fret, when usually I seem to be going the opposite direction. One for the vault.
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If your a cord melody guy, it must be a great thing to have Ron Eschete as your teacher..People tell me to find a teacher, well, not many cord melody guys around...That's my direction...
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Back to that chord: I was thinking the way I use it the most is as a dominant 13th chord:
xx5422 : A13
Then it hit me how well that extends the original pattern to a 6-2-5-1:
xx5422 : A13
xx6533 : Dmin11b5
xx9866 :G7#5#9
xx[10]977 : CMaj7#11
Notice how the same chord functions in four (!) different ways, with the bottom note playing the role of a 7, b5, 3 and root, respectively.
You can also play that chord on the middle and bottom strings:
x5412x : DMaj7#11, etc...
5411xx: AMaj7#11 ...
Other voicings of that chord (with the same note on the bottom) include:
xx3455 : FMaj7#11 ...
x3445x : CMaj7#11 ...
3444xx : GMaj7#11 ...
x3x452 : CMaj7#11 ...
3x442x : GMaj7#11 ...
Me likey!
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OSH,
I have a few chord melody arrangements I could trade you for you your lessons with Ron. I do have his curriculum, when I was at GIT I took his chord melody class. I live in The San Fernando Valley , if you are ever up here drop me a line.
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Alright guys, here's your other Eschete lesson I'll give you that he showed me.
Let's take a ii V in Cmajor. Please note that with ron, he'll use Dm7b5 and G7+, even if it's resolving to Cmajor. To Ron, tension is tension and will generally over a major or minor ii V.
That being said, let's look at the Dm7b5 chord. One thing he showed me was if you play this chord and put Bb on the root, you now have a Bb9 chord.
Dm7b5: D, F, Ab, C
Bb9: Bb, D, F, Ab, C
So lesson 1: Bb9 subs for Dm7b5 and vice versa. He takes this further though.
Consider taking that Bb9 and altering it to give it a Bb9#11 sound. Try playing that over a Dm7b5 for an altered sound. Also though, since Bb9#11 is part of the Fm melodic minor scale, you can also use this scale to play over Dm7b5 to make it sound a bit outside. What you end up doing to the Dm7b5 is playing a 9(E) of the chord. Normally Dm7b5 chords have a b9.
Okay I hope your with me so far. Now you guys know the whole "On any Dominant 7 chord, play melodic minor a half step up and you're playing the altered scale on that dominant chord" For example on a G7 chord, you can play Ab melodic minor. Really common sound in jazz. Ok I'm gonna combine this concept with the concept I was just describing.
Esentially for a Dm7b5 to G7, you could use F melodic minor over the D and Ab Melodic minor over the G. This gives you a good chance to sequence lines up in minor thirds since F and Ab are a minor third away. This concept works over about any ii V. Whatever you play on the ii, you can play a minor third up on the 5 and it will give you some altered notes. Another more simple example of this is playing Dm7 as your ii, and then for the 5, do a ii V a minor third away. So your progression goes: Dm7 Dm7, Fm7 Bb7, Cmaj7.
Hope this all was explained clearly.
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Ron has two chord line books that I found to be helpful...intros and endings, and chord melody phrases. These are both good books if you are interested in developing the Wes-style improvised chord lines.
Wish I could take a lesson from him!
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I think so, too. I am working this into Blue And Green. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
This is a great stuff, btw. Thanks, OP, for sharing - I have learned a LOT just from this thread.
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I saw Ron at the M.I. reunion last weekend and he also opened the show with Howard Alden. It was wonderful to hear these guys play together! Imagine, two seven-string masters playing together!
wiz
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Interesting.. I've been playing with the ii iv VII (flat 7) in place of the ii V for a while. I usually play a 9th chord on the flat 7. That is, Originally Posted by On Sugar Hill
Dm7 Fm7 Bb9 CM7. (Maybe you guys infer 9/11/13 when you say "7" ?).
Sort of ends with a mixolydian twist, to my ears.
I never understood the theory behind why it worked though. Still not sure if fully grok it, but I've yet to try the melodic minor stuff you talk about, so I'll work with that and maybe something will click
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Thank you, BD! I was scratching my head...and my ears... Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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One of my favorite discoveries in exploring the world of jazz theory is that any m7b5 chord moved up 3 frets give you the V7 of the ii V7 i progression. Originally Posted by On Sugar Hill
Last edited by bob32069; 05-03-2012 at 07:25 PM. Reason: typo
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If you get an opportunity, please say hello to Ronnie for me. He was my best friend at G.I.T. and although we saw each other at the M.I. reunion, We were both too busy to have some catch up time. Please tell him that Howard Brown said hello and hope to go back to L.A. to spend some time with him very soon. Originally Posted by On Sugar Hill
Full time. I will certainly have more stuff to share in coming weeks. I study as Jazz performance major at CSULB, where Ron teaches. I certainly do feel blessed to have the ability to study with him. If you guys have anything you want me to ask him about playing, I certainly won't mind especially since it'll teach me stuff. As long as I'm at CSULB though, I will be studying with Ron
wiz
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I remember the first time I heard Ron was at one of the old Howard Robert's seminar back in the 70's. Then he was one of my teachers at MI and the nicest guy you could ever want to meet. It was so funny Todd Johnson the 6-string bass player would take Ron's chord melody class with us playing all the stuff on his bass.
Ron's a great teacher.
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I took a week-long class at the Bud Shank camp from Ron in 2000. He was impressive and classy. He did a great faculty gig one night there with a jazz bassoon player.
Honestly, I'm not sure how much I was influenced by him besides learning the CAGED method and a few other odds and ends- I eventually un-learned the CAGED boxes favoring a linear approach instead.
He told me "it's just music, man".
Cool guy.
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