Distortion pedal for 'Jazz Fusion'

heavyblues · #1 03-09-2010, 02:28 AM

I am inspired by Hiromi Uehara and Christian Scott's guitarists. Not to mention I like John McLaughlin etc. I've noticed Bill Frisell and John Scofield use the RAT pedal, and John Scofield uses the TS-808 tube screamer. These were the two I was primarily looking at since I don't have a tube amp. I currently own a Boss Blues driver, but was wondering if I could get a better tone. I am using a Cube 60.

Basically, would a Cube 60 work well with a RAT or TS-808 Tube Screamer pedal to get a Jazz Fusion tone. Any other recommendations?

I've read that the tube screamer is used behind a tube amp to push it, thats my main concern as to if it would sound good on 'cube vs. tube'

bkdavidson · #2 03-09-2010, 02:53 AM

That could sound decent if you use the 'black panel' or whatever they call it for your clean sound. Actually, now that I've typed that, I recall that's exactly what I did when I had a Cube 60 and it sounded more than decent. I used a tubescreamer. I also used the tubescreamer in front of the tweed model on that amp for a blues recording I had to do once and it sounded quite nice. I think as long as you avoid the actual clean channel on that amp you'll be fine with either of those pedals.

heavyblues · #3 03-09-2010, 03:18 AM

UPDATE: I JUST discovered a really nice fusion tone on NI Guitar Rig...I routed the normal fuzz pedal, with fuzz on minimum and volume max into the Roland Jazz Chorus clone with chorus off. Wow sounds really good.

Marcis · #4 03-09-2010, 10:47 AM

maybe you can try Hughes & Kettner Tube factor - I use it for fusion with my sadowsky semi -hollow and Roland cube60 and it sounds realy great

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #5 03-09-2010, 11:20 AM

Sparkle Drive?

Jazzophobe · #6 03-09-2010, 12:02 PM

I use a BK Butler Tube Driver (4 knob version) with my solid bodies (from a tip from Eric Johnson). I don't apply overdrive to my archtops, they tend to feedback something awful.

heavyblues · #7 03-09-2010, 02:30 PM

thanks for the responses. The sparkle drive looks interesting, TS-808 circuit and clean signal too. I liked the demos I listened to...I ordered it wish me luck.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #8 03-09-2010, 03:10 PM

I know it gets a lot of love on the Tele forum!

bluemood · #9 03-09-2010, 04:20 PM

I have been using a Blackstar HT Dual lately works great in all of my amps...Sound fantastic direct ...US tone Brit tone all in one with a preamp tube love it.

mongrel · #10 03-09-2010, 05:43 PM

When I caught Mahavishu in the early '70's in a small club in Philly, it looked like McLaughlin was plugged in direct to this huge honking Marshall which took care his distortion needs.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #11 03-09-2010, 05:59 PM

Ah, the 70's. When you could name tunes "Sapphire Bullets of Pure Love".

cosmic gumbo · #12 03-09-2010, 07:20 PM

Rat is a distortion and tube screamer is an overdrive. Overdrive units don't seem to quite do the trick with solidstate amps, IMO. Since Roland and Boss are the same company, have you thought about one of the many Boss disortion pedals available? I personally use a plastic $15 danelectro distortion. Sounds sweet.

BillyC · #13 03-09-2010, 08:58 PM

ts808. problem solved.

heavyblues · #14 03-10-2010, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Rat is a distortion and tube screamer is an overdrive. Overdrive units don't seem to quite do the trick with solidstate amps, IMO.

yeah you are right. I give up. I live in a condo and the only tube amp I can drive is my 5 watt champ, and that would be too loud. Looks like I lost on this one, but I will still try the sparkle driver and worst case scenario I can use it in conjunction with my guitar rig software or even return it.

Thanks for all the responses. My last option is to get an actual tube pedal, but I might as well put that money into a tube amp for the future.

kaige · #15 03-10-2010, 01:30 AM

You'll get along just fine with the Sparkle Drive. I use mine in front
of a Twin Reverb. It can add a little or a lot of hair to that very clean amp
and still remain at a living room volume. Also has true bypass which is a
big plus.

heavyblues · #16 03-10-2010, 01:36 AM

ok, thats good to hear. Well I'll see when I try it. I might even be able to drive my tube amp and turn the volume on the amp down and still have creamy tube distortion. Even a little creamy gain from the pedal would be appreciated, as I can send that signal to my software and manipulate it further. I highly recommend Native Instruments Guitar Rig for anyone doing sounds other than clean jazz. Too bad I can shuttle it around with me since I don't have a laptop. For anybody that is interested, the demo works for 30 minutes w/out save feature. Awesome program.

FatJeff · #17 03-10-2010, 11:21 AM

So did you get to try out your new pedal last night?

heavyblues · #18 03-10-2010, 05:14 PM

it shipped but i haven't received it yet. I will get back to the forum with my subjective (of course) results.

I plan on overdriving my 5 watt tweed with Weber speaker...might sound pretty damn cool. Still hoping it would actually do something to the tone on my Cube (hopefully).

larry graves · #19 03-11-2010, 02:24 PM

Does distortion work with heavy jazz strings / flatwounds? I'm sure some of you guys have tried them..

bkdavidson · #20 03-12-2010, 01:11 AM

I don't think so, at least with flats. I tried it once as a joke, and it was a lot worse than I thought it would be. There was no focus to the sound at all, just sort of a big, dirty blob of notes. But that's just my opinion. I think I'm fairly compartmentalized with my guitar playing, which I'm still not sure if it's a good or bad thing.

heavyblues · #21 03-12-2010, 01:22 AM

bk are you using it on a solid body or archtop(or semi even)? I have TI flat 11's on my custom strat and sounds fine with distortion on NI Guitar Rig, but its also a very specific tone which I can't describe well...i'd say 'retro'/defined(as opposed to fuzzy)/buzzy(my horrible attempt at description, sorry).

I intended this thread for finding distortion for my strat and not my archtop as I agree, with an archtop and the same TI Flat 11's, it does not sound right.

larry graves · #22 03-12-2010, 04:10 AM

Thanks for that guys. I've just bought an ex-demo 'Digitec Bad monkey' overdrive on line, it was half price so I had to have it-after reading the thread, it arrives to day. I have no expience with overdrive but it sounds cool. The guitar I intened to use with it, is my LP, strung with Pyramid polished,10,s. I may go even lighter to get the right sound.. Thanks again..LG.

bkdavidson · #23 03-12-2010, 04:30 AM

Heavyblues, I was using an archtop. As far as the tone you're describing, or trying to, are you saying you go for a more natural bluesy type of overdrive? Something more like John Lee Hooker or Lightnin' Hopkins?

And Larry, the Digitech Bad Monkey is a good overdrive for getting your proverbial feet wet. If it were me, I'd stick with 10's on the Les Paul, since the shorter scale will make anything lighter flap around like rubber bands. Heavy guage strings sound fine with overdrive and distortion, I personally just don't like flats.

larry graves · #24 03-12-2010, 10:07 AM

Thanks BK for the response. Just recieved the Bad Monkey.Waiting for my wife to come in with a battery [they did'nt put one in-well it was half price I suppose] so I can try it out. After a lifetime of playing jazz this is a new experience-I might become addicted. I developed arthritis in my thum thats why I play 10s. I went from 15s..13s..to 10s. I've never looked back. The Pyramid polished nickle's are great strings I would recommend them to any jazz guitarist wishing to down gauge, they're better than TIs and chromes in my opinion..LG.

heavyblues · #25 03-12-2010, 02:58 PM

Hey Bk, here is the tone I am looking for

YouTube - Christian Scott feat. Thomas Pridgen - Rewind That
guitar solo at 2:46, that is pretty much the exact tone I want...he uses a semi-hollow es-335 but I am using a solid strat with little 59 pickup in the neck. Any ideas on what hes doing to get that tone in terms of strings amp and distortion...I just need a rough idea? If I can get a similar tone I will be very happy.

and

YouTube - Hiromi Uehara - Time Out
hiromi is beautiful and i love her music...a little guitar lick at 1:16

heavyblues · #26 03-12-2010, 03:00 PM

one more question...to get a wah pedal to work, do i NEED an effects loop. Or can i do something like this (overdrive pedal--->wah--->tube amp). I notice in the hiromi video i posted, his wah is INTENSE...is that because he is using wah AFTER the distortion on the amp through an effects loop?

I know these are seemingly unrelated questions to straight jazz guitar, but if you watch those two videos, they are very jazzy of course. I just love the fusion sound and would like to try new things.

good luck with the pedal Larry, im getting my pedal this monday.

bkdavidson · #27 03-12-2010, 03:32 PM

Heavyblues, that first clip sounds very Fender amp+light overdrive to me. Maybe not even a Fender amp specifically, but a clean amp with more emphasis on mids and high-end, like a Fender. As far as light OD, from reading previous posts it seems that you ended up going with the Sparkle Drive. I'm not familiar with that, but if it has a TS808 circuit, I think you're good to go. For the sound in that first video, you probably won't need the gain past 11 o'clock. As far as the wah pedal, you don't need an effects loop. In fact, the general practice is to place wah pedals or envelope filters before distortion, so you'll want it before the OD pedal. That's just the general practice, though. If you like the sound of wah after distortion, go for it. Effects loops are more for placing certain effects such as chorus, flanger, phaser, and especially delay after amp distortion. If you already know about this stuff, I apologize for going into so much detail. I promise I'm not trying to patronize. I used to work the sales floor in the music store I teach lessons at, and I always really liked explaining gear to people and helping them find the right stuff.

jbear · #28 03-12-2010, 03:56 PM

Personally I like the Maxon SD-9 for distortion and BBE's Green Screamer for OD....Strat and SemiHB.

heavyblues · #29 03-12-2010, 05:31 PM

Thanks BK. Ya I already knew about the basic concept of effects loop, but wasn't sure about wah so much(I should have just googled it, oops). Apparantly Hendrix used his wah before overdrive, and thats the kind of sound I like anyway. I am stoked to get this pedal, I think it might just be right.

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I couldn't get to try any of those pedals but I hope I made the right choice with the Sparkle Drive, I read that it has the same TS-808 chip or circuit or something like that, as well as the benefit of blending in the clean signal, so thats cool.

bkdavidson · #30 03-12-2010, 05:59 PM

And thank you, heavyblues, for being the person to refer to me as 'BK' that finally made me decide to put a picture of the Burger King up as my avatar. One thing I didn't mention before, since it was about time to leave and teach my two students I have today, is that in the second clip some of the wah pedal stuff sounded like it may have been some kind of envelope filter.