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Originally Posted by SuperFour00
Question for ya . . . Do you believe that the politicians and wealthy business leaders ( most (all?) of whom were white) who chose to not fund jazz because it's a black man's music, but not a profitable one, made that decision to not fund jazz more for the former reason of "it's a black mans music" . . or for the later . . "it's not a profitable one"? I've quoted those two phrases, but they're more paraphrased than quoted from your post.
White politicians tried to shut down Alan Freed too . . he was pretty white and R&R was obviously on it's way to becoming VERY profitable. I seriously doubt politicians and wealthy business men would have provided grants to keep Alan Freed rolling.
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08-07-2014 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by woland
Here's a small smattering;
Top 25 Jazz Events and Jazz Festivals in the USA
You tout 1 week in October as jazz euphoria?? There is plenty of jazz in the USA. You've just got to get out a bit more often. lolol The USA is a whole lot bigger that the area you grew up in on the other side of the iron curtain. Things are quite a bit more spread out here.
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Originally Posted by Patrick2
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
plenty of 'em at OWS rallies. Obama voters.
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Originally Posted by fumblefingers
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Originally Posted by fumblefingers
No one knows what's behind the mask or what it's thinking.
It's the era of the mask.
Personally I think these people are suffering from NPD;
Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Originally Posted by woland
my simple, helpful and sincere advice to you is to move to North Korea, Vietnam, China, or perhaps Russia. your ideas will never go anywhere in this land.
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
nope don't know much about them, sounds like you don't either. don't know how anyone would if they don't know what they stand for or what they want.
so. there were indeed anarchists, communists and liberals of every stripe at OWS, including a lot of ignorant young college kids who wanted to get in on something that felt important and historical. it was their 1968. they may not have liked every policy of Obama's but sure as hell weren't for Romney. Obama and Pelosi reached out to them too.
there were only two men to vote for Steve. OWS was a counter to the tea party. whatever else they were or are, they were Obama voters.
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Originally Posted by fumblefingers
But since you asked...
We are here and we are slowly infiltrating your government on every level.
So just hold on - it will be few more years that you have to suffer under the yoke of capitalist oppression.
The glorious revolution will soon liberate you and all the masses yearning to be free in the US of A.
Of course, comrade - we may have to send you to re-education camp where your mind will be cleansed and where you will learn to sing. All the immortal works of Marx and Lenin - in all keys. In three part harmony. With feeling!
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Originally Posted by Patrick2
Fellow forumites, I expect this thread will get locked soon, simply for the reason that, despite my own feeble efforts to discuss the future of Jazz in America, the thread has clearly deteriorated into squabbling. So ATTENTION!
I'm out. Your quoted replies, if directed at me, will go unanswered. Long gig tonight, I'm tired. Best wishes.
Mark, thanks for letting it play out this far. EVERYBODY: Watch the John McLaughlin video!
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Originally Posted by SuperFour00
First, several of the giants of jazz were popular. Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Ella Fitzgerald, the list goes on. (Popular does not necessarily mean good, but we AGREE that many jazz musicians have been good AND popular.)
Second, in a creative sense, jazz is thriving in ways classical music and ballet are not. There's more good jazz out there right now than even obsessive fans like us can keep up with. No one is saying that about classical music or ballet....
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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To get back on topic- the state of the music business. My window of opportunity was very narrow and I'm pretty limited musically to be honest. The merger of R&B and rap was not good for me professionally. That's putting it mildly. Culturally and professionally it was too much for me to absorb and I knew it.
At the ripe old age of 27 I gave up on being a full-time musician. The band I was in 85' introduced rap to people in San Diego on a club level. The vast majority of people at the time had never heard it before. A rapper did his thing between our sets a couple times and we rehearsed at his house. My thinking is, we didn't have a pot to piss in so should I get down on rap? No, hell no.
Rap is one guy and a drum machine to me and when people started adding parts to it it became very commercial and fake. I knew someone would come along and do that.
Dr. Dre? You're wanted in surgery.......
Hip-hop became a culture and went global. So it goes.
I only know about 2 things in music- old school urban dance music and classical music history. Those are things I know well. I'm no jazz musician. My parents heard me jamming to Charley Christian records a lot when I was about 16 and they doomed me to be being a musician. I wanted to be a carpenter but NY state didn't have any training programs.
I don't know what's wrong with the music business is there something wrong with it? There doesn't seem to be a place for me in it but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.
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I went to a high school in the 70s that had a powerhouse music program. The jazz band won competitions, recorded, toured, got written up in Down Beat. Now the program is just average. So what happened?
The middle class shrank. There are fewer parents who can pay for private lessons. There are fewer band boosters to help fund trips, recording, etc.
No more instrument instruction in the lower grades.
Higher academic standards/competition. In the 70s, you could take 3 music classes your senior year, earn a 3.2 grade point average, and still get into UCLA. Now you need to load up on AP classes, win the science fair, and earn a 4.2 grade point average. The kids are doing their required volunteering, instead of having a band car wash. Jazz band used to be something the smart, motivated kids would get into. Now, not so much.
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I couldn't resist this. haha;
Peter Frampton Throws Fan's Phone During Performance To Teach A Lesson
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I find it odd that anyone would consider jazz "black music" these days. The performers and audience are mostly white. Some of the important early performers were black, but jazz has always been a synthesis of African and European ideas.
Last edited by Jonzo; 08-08-2014 at 12:41 PM.
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Originally Posted by Jonzo
I wondered about that. Are there reliable figures on this?
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Originally Posted by Stevebol
I'm not knocking classical for this. I think innovation can be a fetish. (I used to review records and after reviewing hundreds of them by bands who were deservedly obscure, I realized that, as Seinfeld put it, "Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason.")
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Originally Posted by Jonzo
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Charlie Parker also agreed that Stravinsky was innovative for sure
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But classical music never reached the wildness of freejazz unless we enter into the contemporary field of computer assisted stuff à la Xenakis.
Classical stay usually closer to a set of rules, while jazz is more trying to break them
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Classical musicians don't believe anything the scribes say. Jazz musicians believe everything they say.
Two very different world.
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Originally Posted by Bill C
Starting a phrase late
Today, 11:19 PM in Improvisation