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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
again great detail - thanks!!
i never used any kind of rest stroke - so i'm very sensitive to them now - i love them - mmm
look - the tremolo thing is an excellent illustration of how crucial the rest stroke is - not an exception
you're resting - both ways - on the same string - logrolling it.
you're hugging that thing in the push and the pull
it was always the tremolo that showed me how far away i was from achieving any real physical rapour with the instrument
the feeling of relaxation that comes with staying in touch with the strings (almost) the whole time, is a lovely thing
one way i notice it is that i often get the wrong string when i first make contact with the guitar (to play the first note after picking up the guitar) - but once i've got the pick in there i'm getting to the right string at the right time much more reliably than ever before
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08-05-2014 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nunocpinto
He also confirmed somewhere on the internet that George picks the way he does because -according to Benson himself - he can't "skip strings".
What do you think that means?
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here's a nice detail
when pick first 'makes contact' with the string the string DOES NOT SOUND - its only when you push/pull on it and it flexes through that the string sounds. and that happens 'after' (often we're not talking about a very long time between contact and flexing) contact has been made - soundlessly - with the string.
nice
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interesting thread.
back in the beginning when I was studying w/a teacher I was always told to hold the pick parallel to the strings and no-no-no anchoring of the hand.
have to say I never paid much attention to how I pick from an angle standpoint, I always thought I was close to parallel, but I do notice wear on the edge of the pick that suggests I use a grip/angle closer to Herb Ellis, which seems to be the opposite of this Benson style. and though I don't rigidly anchor, my pinky does lightly brush the guard
might be a real pain for me to change now as I'm gigging all the time and don't know how to incorporate a style like this so far into the game and w/work on the immediate horizon.
on top of it I've used 2MM picks forever and don't know what it would feel like now to go thinner.
I'm not close minded though, so might mess around w/this technique in my spare time.
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maybe this should be made more explicit
the fact that there are so many possible hybrid approaches - that is - so many ways to drag a rigid pick through the string (non-benson) and so many ways to let a non-rigid pick flex through the string
means that there could be a lot of people who have a grip that looks a bit like the benson grip, but because they are dragging the pick through the string with a rigid pick - they are not anywhere near using the benson method
similarly there could be people who seem to be adopting a traditional or dragging method because of the arm/wrist/hand position who really are using the benson technique because they are relying on the pick flex to produce the sound
should i add that the reason to make this explicit is not to pss people off who may think they're doing but aren't - its to help people nail an exciting technique
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Originally Posted by nunocpinto
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Originally Posted by mylesgtr
thanks thanks thanks
fantastic clip - mggm (my goodness gracious me)
i'm not up on this stuff - but i'm sure rj had a lot to do with developing that style of playing - that way of merging jazz and funk, or improvising over that sort of rhythm feel (whatever you want to call it) - so no wonder its new to me.
the way he builds the intensity incrementally - despite starting at quite an intense place - is something.
and it looks just like mw's right hand to me. heavy use of anchoring - but fat pick and dragging method.
can i say this without seeming to criticize such fabulous playing? - this seems to me to have the staccato thing going on but without the flow that benson generates. part of that is the use of space and rhythmical variety in benson (and often, strong vocal/bluesy ideas) - this playing has a metronomic rhythmically anchored feel that is quite different. (i'm not saying its stiff or sterile - he uses different ways to generate swells and dynamics)
i mention this only because it bears on questions about the relation between right hand technique and feel.
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Any clips out there of RJ playing at a fast tempo now to compare?
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Originally Posted by mylesgtr
You got to study with Rodney, right? I think a few other guys on this thread did, too. Is there anything he stressed that is different than what we've been talking about?
I think I've heard Rodney uses heavy picks. He obviously favors the 335 shape. I've also heard he stresses rest strokes on ascending stuff and cross picking going back down.
Any other bits of wisdom?
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this is some wonderful guitar playing in these vids - what a treat
have to post this - it may be very well known - it certainly ought to be
he plays rather fluidly i think - but understatement aside, could one be more free and more fluid - more relaxed and exuberant at the same time? sometimes he makes me think of art tatum more than anyone - but he's playing a guitar.
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Originally Posted by mylesgtr
Perry Hughes is amazing; he his really one of the few that has the GB picking down.
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perry hughes is amazing
and that is totally mesmerizing alto playing - i'd love to play guitar like thatLast edited by Groyniad; 08-06-2014 at 01:36 PM. Reason: addition
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Originally Posted by mylesgtr
absoluuuuutely
where are his records?
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Originally Posted by nunocpinto
Pick Flex! He's using it as part of the groove and so is Benson in the So What clip.
If there are any audio engineers out there you might be familiar with method of using a compressor on a rhythmic instrument where you set the release and attack times so that the compressor pumps in time with the groove.
This pick flexing thing really reminds me of that.
So once again it's about the "whole". The left and right hand AND the pick are all in the groove.
That doesn't mean I know how to do it. But I recognise it.
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Originally Posted by Richb
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Originally Posted by mylesgtr
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Originally Posted by Richb
Hey Rich give George a call and tell him his technique ain't working.
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Originally Posted by nunocpinto
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Perry H. is a monster. Really nice playing.
I wonder if Richb trolls classical guitar forums and warns the players about the necessity of muting open strings at all times.
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Originally Posted by nunocpinto
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Originally Posted by nunocpinto
Perhaps also the desire to play staccato back in the day. I recall Pat Martino saying that he wanted a "nice" staccato sound.
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the only guitarist i've heard who can match perry hughes - who i first heard last night - is george benson
i'm in love with perry hughes - thanks thanks thanks thanks for introducing him to me nunocpinto
but he has to record some records SURELY
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08-06-2014, 07:21 AM #599destinytot Guest
Exploded viewing is revealing:
when pick first 'makes contact' with the string the string DOES NOT SOUND - its only when you push/pull on it and it flexes through that the string sounds. and that happens 'after' (often we're not talking about a very long time between contact and flexing) contact has been made - soundlessly - with the string.
(Being able to slow video down is a great help; YouTube's settings are useful for this, but I didn't realise there was a variable speed setting on Windows Media Player until just now.)
Thank you very much for the George Benson AVI, nunocpinto. I've now watched it repeatedly at half speed with time stretched audio.
free strokes on the right and left hand muting on each note on the left.
I do think this is a crucial point, and I find setemupjoe's observation to be significant:
The faster the line is the less I notice if I'm actually making contact with the next string
I'm also going to give more focused awareness to 'the pocket' when playing double-time phrases at manageable speed; regardless of the speed, 'the pocket' is like a motorway rumble strip.
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Originally Posted by nunocpinto
If you watch the whole thing it's pretty obvious, and Fisher never asks him specifically about muting, although he does ask him about thumb picking.
Anyone else use Genius Jamtracks?
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