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Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog
Thanks for all that you contribute to this forum. I never miss one of your posts.
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07-01-2020 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
it's at www.facebook.com/groups/modernjazzguitar
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Originally Posted by jzucker
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I liked DB's post because, essentially, I agree with it.
But, let's be fair, although theoretical analysis doesn't lead to good solos, playing a solo isn't some sort of magic. We have to have some idea of what we're doing before we begin otherwise you're looking at a potential car crash.
Coltrane, in that vid, is playing a lot of runs with consecutive notes, not just arpeggios. They're obviously in sync with the chord/s so they must have some relation to those chords and the tune itself. To any ear they represent a scale, or part of one certainly.
So one has to ask where the theory ends and the ability to play good notes starts? Sheer experience can't be given to someone, it has to come.
I think rp has probably over-analysed it - and it won't by itself produce a fluid solo - but I wouldn't say that no sort of analysis at all is necessary, particularly of a new tune.
Or, if we don't like the word analysis, let's call it preparation, or reconnaissance, or something :-)
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I have posted repeatedly the notion of strumming the chords, scat singing, and putting that on the guitar. When you get bored with what you can create that way, then it's time to expand vocabulary. For me, that's best done by listening. I've gotten precious little from a lot of time expended with theory, and I've posted that ad nauseum.
The point I was trying to make about Like Someone In Love was that almost the entire tune feels to me like a descending line and to phrase with that sound in mind.
I tried to flesh out the details of how the tune accomplishes that.
When I play this tune, I just try to maintain awareness of the sound of the song, melody and harmony, and play what I'm singing in my head. If I get hung up for some reason, I know the chord tones and I have a vague idea of the tonal centers. That awareness is the safety net, not the trapeze.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Meanwhile, I continue to probe all the ways to be irredeemably lame playing this tune.
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i wasn't inferring that rp's analysis was bad it's just that writing about improvising is tough because few people can read the technical details without their eyes glazing over. You guys might consider putting some of your ideas up on soundslice. I've been doing that lately and it seems to be very helpful.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
But the whole thing did come over as a bit over-analytical at first glance, to be honest. I think that's what got all the reactions.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Perhaps the descending bass line could be suggested, not actually executed. By hitting a few, using guide tones, one could gesture at that pattern but not hew to it absolutely.
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For what it's worth, here's my effort at ornamenting the tune and a solo. I made this about 3 weeks ago and posted it on another thread, but thought I'd post it here. My current efforts are not much different from this, though I think I'm feeling more confidence than I did when this was recorded, and I have a few more ideas I'm working with.
For me, a big challenge is always knowing where I am in the form, and how to tag the changes just enough to keep things on track.
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That was well thought out. It was just getting exciting when you stopped :-)
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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All right. I take back everything I said.
I sat down to play Like Someone In Love and couldn't think about any of what I wrote about. I hear the tune in my mind, and I play.
I like some of it, I don't like all of it, but the better parts are characteristic of what I'm trying to do. The idea of pivots, scales etc - none of that stuff - crossed my mind. And, I can't always play what I scat sing -- seems to be mood related -- and I did that only to a limited degree in this take.
For some reason, the file wouldn't load as an attachment. Even though the URL above worked fine when I pasted it into an address line. Sorry for any inconvenience.
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rp -
Hooray! But that was lovely. It didn't sound like you'd worked it all out, you weren't playing by rote like a machine, etc, it sounded fluent, it swung... how good has it got to be?
Thank you. Do some more!
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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you found some melancholy in the tune
It's actually quite a fun test of soloing skills. Put down the bass for a 3-chord number like Happy Birthday or some easy country or folk song and you'll find it fairly easy to bring out the sound of the chords. But try it with a much more complex jazz tune and it's quite revealing.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I don't give much advice here but I would suggest that if you cannot play what you pontificate on in an advice to others ... do not advise it. Way better is to post sound clips of stuff that you can play and discuss that!
That said, RP jazzguitar, you have the guts to post clips and therefore kudos to you!!!!
DB
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
DB
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Looking forward to doing some great solos on this vintage axe I’ve bought.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
DB
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Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Cheap floating humbuckers
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