Soloing over "Like Someone In Love?"

[DB's Jazz Guitar Blog]

Coming from you that means a lot. All I'm "thinking" in this is about the handful of tension points. I'm also trying to think of melodies not licks, though the licks come in when I get momentarily confused. Or maybe momentarily not confused.

You can create tension when you play stuff that is not really there in the changes. The first 4 bars are Eb but I am playing a II V over them instead.

[mr. beaumont]

Late to the party, been busy--got a new puppy over here...

Sat down this morning and just made a quick video. I think the A section is really the only tricky part...it gets easy to start chasing changes...

I'm a big proponent of simplifying changes...not to the point of playing just key centers, but trying to eliminate stuff that's there for color and peel away the onion a bit to get at what's really happening.

Anyway, see if this helps. I'll try and do a full take later, this is just me thinking out loud a bit.

[grahambop]

Congrats on the new axe! I'm sure you can type some great solos on it!

DB

Thanks! First I need to fit a new ribbon, and decide which gauge of paper to use. Then spend a couple of years taking grammar and syntax lessons. After that I’ll be ready!

[DB's Jazz Guitar Blog]

Thanks! First I need to fit a new ribbon, and decide which gauge of paper to use. Then spend a couple of years taking grammar and syntax lessons. After that I’ll be ready!

Do not forget a seminar in advisory skills. Typing solos and giving online advice are two sides of the same coin!

DB

[ragman1]

Hi. Jeff, it's been so long... you seem to have survived the looting, etc. Good, not nice.

I thought I might point out that Lawson put a sheet up on the first page here and bar 3 is down as F7/Bb7 before the Gm. That might have been confusing. You were using Aø/Ab7b5 which obviously makes a lot more sense as a lead-in to the Gm.

Also, the melody's a strong F natural at bar 3. Wouldn't worry me, or you perhaps, but that might be another possible point of confusion over what is really a D7b9 sub.

[mr. beaumont]

Lol, I'm still using the old dealbook changes ain't I?

Just checked, iReal is similar to mine.

Seems like all my favorite versions are in Ab,anyway...maybe a little low on guitar...

Nah, I like it. I'm relearning it in Ab with my old ass changes.

[rpjazzguitar]

That was really nice. A very "singing" solo, which is what I long to be able to do consistently. Thanks for posting. I got some ideas that I hope to be able to use.

When a player asks for some ideas about how to approach a tune, the discussion can get pretty heady.

I've posted before my idea that you strum the chords and scat sing. When you get something you like, play it.

You do need to have the ability to play what you hear in your mind. Can you pick a random melody that you know but have never played, and play it starting on any fret/finger/string without mistakes, or close? That's a fundamental skill. You probably build it by watching TV and copying every bit of background music you hear. If you watch documentaries, you'll become better informed and barely know you're practicing. <g>

Then, you need to be able to scat sing something that sounds good. I resist going too deeply into new theories because I already can scat sing stuff I can't play. So I figure I have to catch up to that first. Some players say they can't generate good lines while scatting ... if you can't do that how are you going to generate better lines on the guitar?

I know one world class player who seems to derive a lot of useful material from theory, so I'm not disparaging it in any general way.

[lawson-stone]

Late to the party, been busy--got a new puppy over here...

Sat down this morning and just made a quick video. I think the A section is really the only tricky part...it gets easy to start chasing changes...

I'm a big proponent of simplifying changes...not to the point of playing just key centers, but trying to eliminate stuff that's there for color and peel away the onion a bit to get at what's really happening.

Anyway, see if this helps. I'll try and do a full take later, this is just me thinking out loud a bit.

That's really helpful! I have indeed starting taking M3 as the A half-diminished. I also am playing that Ab something-or-other as an F half-diminished and it gives me a nice chromatic move to the Gm7. So your thinking here is pointing directly to what I've been groping toward.

Thanks for the little lesson! This thread has been so helpful to me. The generosity with ideas and suggestions here has been encouraging!

[rpjazzguitar]

Some thoughts on voice leading the harmony while comping the tune. Apologies in advance for the overdetailed nature of this post.

First two bars: hold an Eb triad (third fret) (or Cm) and pass the bass line down, Eb D C Bb. The second chord is dissonant, but I like it. For the third chord try x3544x. - it doesn't sound that great, but it has a certain something.

Another thing to try is to hold xxx88x with your index finger. Then grab Eb at the 13th fret of the D string and pass it down from there.

Bars 3 and 4: If you did the thing at the 8th fret, then just continue the moving line to A at the 7th fret. That gives you A Eb G which is 75% of the Ahalfdim.

The next chord is Ab7, so, to continue the movement, drop the A to Ab and play xx687x. That's R 5 b7 for the Ab7. Then for Bar 4, move to xx576x. For the C7, you can move to xx575.
Or, maybe, 8x875x

More likely, though, I think I'd use the approach at the 3rd fret. After the C7/Bb I'd go to 5x554x, then 4x456x. Bar 4: 3x333x and 2x232x

Bar 5. The moving bass line is now (starting from the top) Eb D C Bb A Ab G Gb (that Gb would be the tritone of the C7 in bar 4).

So, in Bar 5, we have an F, which continues the line very nicely and voice leads smoothly.

Bar 6 is Am7 D7, which, I suppose you could play as Am7/E and D7. I don't care for the sound of that, though. For an E in the bass I like 0x67xx.

At that point, I hear the line as going to Ebmaj9 and thence to Eb7. So, from Bar 5 it's Fm7/F, Bb7/E, Ebmaj/Eb and Ebmaj/Db.

Next up is Ab. Put a C in the bass and you've continued the descending bass line.

I'll stop here.

[jzucker]

i think you don't want to outline the bass movement in your solo. It's not very common and i haven't heard anyone do that. More important is hitting the 3rds, 7ths and (b9 in the case of the 7th chords) of the relevant chords IMO...

[mr. beaumont]

Definitely.

That descending bassline is what messes everybody up.

[rpjazzguitar]

Definitely.

That descending bassline is what messes everybody up.

My thought is that it's there in the structure of the tune. Or, at least one way to hear it.

You might hear the descending line explicity stated in the bass or piano, or you might not, depending on their choices. You often hear it in the first two bars, though.

Either way, the idea is to be aware of it, not to explicitly state it. Of course, you don't have to and you could conceptualize the whole thing some other way.

[David B]

Seems like all my favorite versions are in Ab,anyway...maybe a little low on guitar...

Nah, I like it. I'm relearning it in Ab with my old ass changes.

Most of the great recordings of the tune are in Ab.

Gb: Original film score; Nancy Wilson '67.
G: Sonny Rollins '57.
Ab: Sinatra '54; Stan Getz '56; Nat King Cole '56; Coltrane '58; Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers '55 and '60;
F: Sarah Vaughn '58; Bill Evans '62
C: Paul Bley '53, Bud Powell '55, Coleman Hawkins '57, Barry Harris '76.

and they all have something different for the first four bars!

People only play it in Eb because that's what's been spread by the Real Book.

[David B]

The first four bars in the original film score are:

| Gb Bbm/F | Ebm Bbm/Db | Ab7/C Db/Cb | Gb/Bb |

That's | I iii(with 5th in bass) | vi iii (with 3rd in bass) | IIV (with 3rd in bass) V (with 7th in bass) | I (with 3rd in bass)

This is just a turnaround back to I.

[mr. beaumont]

My thought is that it's there in the structure of the tune.

Oh it definitely is, I just think it's better to simplify the harmony for blowing.

[ragman1]

Most, probably all, versions have two chords in bar 3 to accommodate the dratted bass line. However, Stan Getz used the usual two doms (D7/G7 in Bb) but didn't bother with the bass line.

Sounds good to me. We really don't need to torture ourselves trying to play something if it's too tricky. Not worth it. The two doms aren't a problem, just a few notes will do it.

[KirkP]

The first four bars in the original film score are:

| Gb Bbm/F | Ebm Bbm/D | Ab7/C Db/Cb | Gb/Bb |

That's | I iii(with 5th in bass) | vi iii (with 3rd in bass) | IIV (with 3rd in bass) V (with 7th in bass) | I (with 3rd in bass)

This is just a turnaround back to I.

A couple of typos:
The third chord should be Bbm/Db.
The sixth chord would be Db7/Cb.
Otherwise that makes sense as an original score.

[rpjazzguitar]

I must have done so many versions by now. I did one in C, slightly reharmed, and posted it. No one bothered with it!

Most, probably all, versions have two chords in bar 3 to accommodate the dratted bass line. However, Stan Getz used the usual two doms (D7/G7 in Bb) but didn't bother with the bass line.

Sounds good to me. We really don't need to torture ourselves trying to play something if it's too tricky. Not worth it. The two doms aren't a problem, just a few notes will do it.

Bar 7 of the solo. Against Dm, a prominent G#. Leading, somehow, to a B against Fm7. And it all sounds so smooth. I'm confident someone will have a great theoretical explanation, post hoc. But, Stan Getz could just hear that stuff, is my guess. Brilliant player.

[ragman1]

Bar 7 of the solo. Against Dm, a prominent G#. Leading, somehow, to a B against Fm7. And it all sounds so smooth. I'm confident someone will have a great theoretical explanation, post hoc. But, Stan Getz could just hear that stuff, is my guess. Brilliant player.

He's pre-empting the Fm. Think Ab rather than G#. He does the same the next time round too. The final time he lands right on it. And B's the tritone. Or the blue note, however you look at it.

[rpjazzguitar]

He's pre-empting the Fm. Think Ab rather than G#. He does the same the next time round too. The final time he lands right on it. And B's the tritone. Or the blue note, however you look at it.

He hits that Ab on beat 3 and then "resolves" it by hitting a B as the chord changes to Fm7. I usually hear that foreshadowing of the chord thing either started later, or using a straight arp. And, then, not leaning on the tritone of a minor chord. He does it more conventionally later in the tune.

So, just to start an argument, could you teach somebody to do that by saying, change the chord early and lean on the tritone of a m7? I don't think that would help someone learn to do what Stan Getz did. I think it had to do with the entire melodic feel of his improv, the way he played the time in a relaxed manner and even his tone -- so gentle the ear doesn't hear harshness.

Maybe you could assign a student "play over the chord sequence and resolve to the tritone on the Fm, and make sure it sounds like music". In fact, I think I may work on that later.

[pauln]

"...and make sure it sounds like music". In fact, I think I may work on that later.

That's all I work on!
What else is there?
Seriously...

[ragman1]

He hits that Ab on beat 3 and then "resolves" it by hitting a B as the chord changes to Fm7. I usually hear that foreshadowing of the chord thing either started later, or using a straight arp. And, then, not leaning on the tritone of a minor chord. He does it more conventionally later in the tune.

So, just to start an argument, could you teach somebody to do that by saying, change the chord early and lean on the tritone of a m7? I don't think that would help someone learn to do what Stan Getz did. I think it had to do with the entire melodic feel of his improv, the way he played the time in a relaxed manner and even his tone -- so gentle the ear doesn't hear harshness.

Maybe you could assign a student "play over the chord sequence and resolve to the tritone on the Fm, and make sure it sounds like music". In fact, I think I may work on that later.

The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain

[Irishmuso]

Check this out this reharm of chopsticks. Some absolute cheek going on:

The punctuation is all over the place as well

[lawson-stone]

I wanted to bring closure to this thread at least for me. After several weeks of focusing on this tune, I have lots of ideas, I feel like I've grown a lot musically, thanks to the contributors to this thread. This is my last clip for now on this. Funny, I've jammed on this tune for long periods and had lots of great moments, but when i sat down today to do a "One Take Only" clip, I feel like it's a little flat. Maybe I've been on it too long?

I also know I enjoy playing the melody more than I do improvising over the tune. Just a lovely, simple, but subtle melody that I enjoy playing.

Thanks to all of you for taking this little hike with me.

[citizenk74]

Thanks for sharing your musical journey with us, Lawson. Your outstanding enthusiasm and example are an inspiration to many of us, myself included. Again, my thanks!