Soloing over "Like Someone In Love?"

[lawson-stone]

I really enjoy this tune, but frankly, looking at the changes drives me crazy. I play it in Eb and I can see some landmarks in the chart but there are other places where I'm having a hard time figuring out what the underlying harmonic movement is for the improviser.

Here is the chart I'm using for reference.


I would greatly appreciate hearing how you all think through these changes for improvising.

[P4guitar]

Why not play the chord tones...or God forbid, be an apostate and use CST? These approaches work great for harmonies like this.

PS: I use slightly different chords too. Glad you posted the sheet as I'd forgotten these changes.

[A. Kingstone]

Treat bar 3 like Am7b5/D7 or Am7b5/Abm6.

Hope that helps.

[DB's Jazz Guitar Blog]

I really enjoy this tune, but frankly, looking at the changes drives me crazy. I play it in Eb and I can see some landmarks in the chart but there are other places where I'm having a hard time figuring out what the underlying harmonic movement is for the improviser. I would greatly appreciate hearing how you all think through these changes for improvising.

Did you not study the Raney solo for this one? Was that not helpful to get some ideas for this tune?

I'm not sure the CS theory is going to help you much here ... It might and then it might not ... How's your ability to use your ear and simply reproduce what you hear? Does that work for you?

DB

[lawson-stone]

Did you not study the Raney solo for this one? Was that not helpful to get some ideas for this tune?

I'm not sure the CS theory is going to help you much here ... It might and then it might not ... How's your ability to use your ear and simply reproduce what you hear? Does that work for you?

DB

Actually my ear is turning out to help the most, though I'm one of those people who has trouble "hearing lines in my head." I just have to transition from a Cm7 to a Gm7 in one measure... Raney in the first chorus actually builds a phrase off of an F9 arpeggio starting on the 3rd.

I guess my question is also one of how the harmony is actually working. I get the descending bass line, I just don't understand what's happening. I know that does not entirely make sense, maybe I'm over-thinking.

[powersurge]

What is confusing you harmonically? This is pretty standard - all clearly functional. The tune is in Eb and has some little voyages to VI.

The only "weird" thing I see is the F7/A - Bb7/Ab movement which is an elided resolution commonly used in classical music where the 3rd of the first chord moves down half a step to the 7th of the next - more of a contrapuntal thing that leads the bass down to the Gmin7 (the iii7)

[Tal_175]

Another way of seeing bars 2, 3 and 4 is the common progression: I | IV bVII7 | I in C minor.
It repeats in bars 5, 6 and 7 except resolves to the key, Ebmaj7 (or C minor without the root). It doesn't really modulate to relative minor though IMO.

[powersurge]

Yeah, that's why I wrote VI - it later modulates to C major which is just a chromatic mediant with respect to the home key, Eb.

[christianm77]

I always found this a tricky tune.

Alan, I’m shocked. Surely we view Am7b5 as an F7 not the other way around? ;-)

So obviously ignore those bass notes.

to be honest, I don’t think I’ve ever played these changes. I play something like

Eb G7 | Cm | Am7b5 D7 | Gm |

with the Eb-D-Db-C-Bb-A- etc bass

You could even ignore the Eb and play

Dm7b5 G7 | Cm | Am7b5 D7 | Gm |

because why play a tonic major when you can play a half diminished?

(you can put the C7 in if you want.)

i always found the challenge is to then play through the slow chord changes actually!

D7 into Ebmaj7 is lush. I prefer that to Bb7 Ebmaj7

[christianm77]

I think some people just have an Eb turnaround for the first couple of bars IIRC

When I don’t have to watch pinkfong with my toddler ill check out some recordings. I remember thinking the standard changes doesn’t really reflect a lot of recordings.

some classic reharms in pinkfong though. If you want to hear a slick reharm of a nursery rhyme that’s the place to go. So I’m happy my daughter is hearing some tritone subs and altered dominants you know.

Koreans love a bit of jazz harmony apparently.

Check this out this reharm of chopsticks. Some absolute cheek going on:

What bored Berklee alumnus came out with this I wonder?

[emanresu]

I'd put a backing track with basic correct&checked changes on loop. Then I would play it only by ear for embarrassing amount of hours.

[grahambop]

As a starting point you could just reduce those changes to the simplest level, e.g. maybe something like this:

Eb (8 bars)
Ab (1 bar)
C (3 bars)
F7 (2 bars)
Bb7 (2 bars)

Eb (8 bars)
Ab (1 bar)
C (2 bars)
F#dim (1 bar)
Eb (4 bars)

You could solo over that and it would work. It wouldn't necessarily sound fantastic, but it would get you going. Anywhere where those changes don't give you a good-sounding note, just use something from the melody in that bar. In fact you could just play around with the melody for the whole 32 bars, that will also work. Lee Konitz would do that.

Then you can adjust it a bit e.g. make it sound better by incorporating some of the chord tones on the various ii-Vs in the original changes, rather than just forcing one chord across them as I have done above.

The point is to reduce all those changes to a few underlying movements, doing this is beneficial anyway because you start to recognise similar patterns in all the tunes.

Eventually you can add back in as much complexity as you want, i.e. to outline every single chord change if that's what you want to do.
But I wouldn't start at that point.

[christianm77]

I think Getz version is something like

Eb Ab7 | G7 Cm7 | F7 F#o7 | Gm7 C7

which is interesting. Then a simple ii V I into Eb.

[lawson-stone]

It's just weird to me that the first 4 measures are so "busy" with changes, and the rest of the song is totally laid back and easy, though not really "stock." It smells a little like "All the Things You Are" in places. It seems to set you up for a pedal-tone pivot to another key center, but then it doesn't, or it doesn't go where I expect.

I'll never be a jazz improviser, no matter how hard I try.

[pauln]

It's just weird to me that the first 4 measures are so "busy" with changes...

The first two bars are like Bach's 3rd Orchestral Suites/Overture No. 3 in D major, BWV 1068 (Air on the G string).
From there (in Eb), the target is Bb; Bach goes Ab A Bb, where H&B go the longer jazz route A Ab G C F Bb.

[Jonah]

It's just weird to me that the first 4 measures are so "busy" with changes, and the rest of the song is totally laid back and easy, though not really "stock." It smells a little like "All the Things You Are" in places. It seems to set you up for a pedal-tone pivot to another key center, but then it doesn't, or it doesn't go where I expect.

I'll never be a jazz improviser, no matter how hard I try.

Fisrt bars 'changes' describe the bass line mostly and this makes it look so dense... and this is where the major II comes from... they need this A natural in the bass, and following chord (7th in the bass - very nice and common classical move by the way!) too is there for the bass line

Try to play just one chord for the bar Ebmaj7 / Cm7 / Fm7 (sic!) / Bb7
And then play the melody over it it will fit well...



I think of it as just heading to ii in the 5th bar(F-7)... in solo they can be all covered just with Eb

[christianm77]

It's just weird to me that the first 4 measures are so "busy" with changes, and the rest of the song is totally laid back and easy, though not really "stock." It smells a little like "All the Things You Are" in places. It seems to set you up for a pedal-tone pivot to another key center, but then it doesn't, or it doesn't go where I expect.

I'll never be a jazz improviser, no matter how hard I try.

Yeah I found that the hardest thing about it.

[Jonah]

Yeah I found that the hardest thing about it.

This is particular thing I enjoy in this tune... and yes I agree it is hard if one wants to follow it..

Actually first bars sound like 4/4 and the rest like 2/2

Same thing happens in 'My One And Only Love' and though original changes seem different... the beginning sequence of 'Like Someone In Love' can be applied to it directly - with no corrections.



PS
I notice jazzers seldom try to overview the orginal form of the song though it can be fun... how the space is used.

[Jonah]

Here is the chart My One And Only Love.. exactly the same changes - just the space use is a bit different...


more motion at the beginning... but it is connected with melody... in Like Someone In Love melodic movement stays the same throughout and makes a contrast to bass harmony and in My One And Only Love it moves in the same pace with harmony

In both cases these changes can be reduced to I - vi- ii - V... essential harmony will stay (but some spice will go)

[grahambop]

It's just weird to me that the first 4 measures are so "busy" with changes, and the rest of the song is totally laid back and easy,

Although if you look at the melody, the first 8 bars are just diatonic notes in Eb, nothing else. So you can also be guided by this.

[PMB]

I think Getz version is something like

Eb Ab7 | G7 Cm7 | F7 F#o7 | Gm7 C7

which is interesting. Then a simple ii V I into Eb.

Great early Stan! The changes are more regular on the version of "Like Someone in Love" from People Time, recorded only months before his death from liver cancer. As to be expected, Getz occasionally struggles during these live sessions but his duo partner, pianist Kenny Barron is in absolutely top form here:

Btw, I'm hearing those chords from The Steamer track as Ebmaj7 Abmaj7 | Gm7 C7 | F7 F#o7 | Gm7 C7 (actually in the key of Ab). They're a nice alternative to the descending bass changes.

[lawson-stone]

Yeah I found that the hardest thing about it.

I appreciate your recognition that it's a tricky 4 measures. Everyone else seems to be on the "Oh it's really simple, just..." but they all seem reductionistic to me. I want to be able to play the changes, not play in spite of the changes. Sure sometimes we simplify, but I think it's important first to nail the changes and what the intention of the harmonic movement is, then work with that.

Thanks for not brushing it off. I've played a lot of standards (admittedly,, not very well!) and this thing is different in a lot of ways, even when it seems conventional.

[Jonah]

Everyone else seems to be on the "Oh it's really simple, just..." but they all seem reductionistic to me.

It is true... I often think that if we reduce everything to ii-V-I or I-vi-ii- V ... we may come into sounding very generic on any tune becasue many stadards are really reductable.

And I understand what you mean in that particular case too...

I like the colour of these inversion F/A and Bb7/Ab...

On the other hand it is true that in this case it is only for base move... I sincerely think one cannot do much out of it in soloing...

In somes sense there are 'no changes' here - if it were arranged written in standard notation we probably just though about passing bass notes

[lawson-stone]

So I just posted on my other LSIL thread a clip that I"ll post here. Your advice and encouragement have kept me going with this tune, and so I've posted here the melody with some embellishments and attempted a chorus of melody-inspired improvisation. This is painfully elementary for most of you, and mistakes are made... but at least I hope someone who is hesitant to post will think "I can do better than that" and maybe put their own stuff up.

Sorry for double-posting (other thread) but I got mixed up which thread was which.

[christianm77]

Hey Lawson, steady improvement. Have you listened back to this and decided which bit you like the best?