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Doesn't play melodic solos? He does at times, but who the hell cares whether or not he does? He is a polyphonic player on a polyphonic instrument and that is what he is generally exploring. Perhaps you should watch more of his videos where he mostly doesn't do a lot of the solo long-form stuff.
Originally Posted by jazzyfan
This is beautiful. "Melodic" solos are not required of a guitarist like they are of a saxophonist or trumpeter who can only play one note at a time. Why should we limit ourselves? There are many pianists who don't play predominantly melodic solos but instead play polyphonically; do you complain about that? George Van Eps and Gene Bertoncini, for example, are well known for polyphonic guitar playing and created much beautiful music over very long careers.
As for the swing groove, did you also hate Bill Evans's floaty feel? I don't know if Ben Monder is a Bill Evans fan, but some of his time feel seems connected to that. I agree that the swing groove is one of the defining features of jazz and lament that fewer and fewer musicians seem to be able to play it, but other grooves can be pretty great.
A lot of the people who love Monder's brand of modernism are in their 50s, 60s, 70s and not just "younger guys desperate to signal how advanced they are." There are a lot of "advanced" guitar possibilities being developed, much of it on the platform of Mick Goodrick's foundational work, that has not yet reached maturity in terms of musical application and expression. But it will, thanks to the Modern Guitar Harmony group- some of whom participate in this very forum- making that information and its uses broadly available. We are already hearing some very wonderful music from guitarists grounded in those approaches and that is only going to grow as people learn to use those tools for musical expression.
Ah, the fingerstyle technique police! You sound like that Sorhead guy on YouTube.Pass, Breau, Mancuso, Buzzurro there aren't many fstylists that can swing. Which is why I mention Mancuso since he is a signal example of what can be achieved with hard work and not pretending like the other approaches are ok. They aren't, and the ugly truth is that the guys using those cobbled-together techniques know this, but won't admit it and pretend it's ok instead of doing the hard work.
You neglect to mention that Matteo also has a faulty and illegal thumb-and-two-fingers fingerstyle technique that he uses just as much as the sanctioned and legal i-m technique (which in his case is more flamenco style than classical style).
The problem with your stance that classical right hand technique is the only correct and permissible approach is that we're not playing classical music. That technique developed within the confines of European classical music, with the development of classical technique particularly pushed by Segovia. The demands of jazz require adaptation of technique and the right hand technique of classical is not completely suitable for playing jazz fingerstyle.
And we haven't even considered Pasquale Grasso, who seems to have solved the jazz guitar technique puzzle.
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05-20-2026 11:47 AM
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It's also worth mentioning that there is variation among classical guitarists in RH technique in any case...
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Considerably! Just compare Segovia, John Williams and Julian Bream. Or go to the end of the scale and look at Paul Galbraith.
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Re. Joe Pass, I don’t think he used a strict classical RH fingerstyle technique. On the Jazz Lines video, he says he just uses whichever RH finger feels comfortable, and doesn’t think about it or have any particular system, he even plays repeated notes with the same RH finger sometimes.
He discusses it at 5:20 here:
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Yeah Buzzuro is pretty old school isn't he? Finger back, thumb somewhat protruding forming a clear X with the fingers. his technique looks like Segovia's which as I understand it is a Spanish approach. Originally Posted by James W
Most modern classical players seem to have a more ergonomic position with the hand in a more 'natural positon', with a straighter wrist and the thumb and fingers closer together. I think I heard it called German technique?
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Man I wish I could play as badly as Mr Monder lol. Originally Posted by Cunamara
He has made trade off's like everyone else.And we haven't even considered Pasquale Grasso, who seems to have solved the jazz guitar technique puzzle.
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I never did l learn that Lenny Breau harp harmonics technique, Monder really makes good use of it. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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When a Hawaiian slack key player (Sonny Chillingworth, I think) was asked which finger he used to execute a passage, he replied, "Whichever one gets there first." FWIW, many older SK players such as Sonny, Raymond Kane, and Auntie Alice Namakelua were thumb-index players--like mainlanders Gary Davis, Merle Travis, and Doc Watson.
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I really like the name Chillingworth
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Hexworthy in Devon is worth a visit. Originally Posted by joe2758
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If you think the name is cool, wait until you hear his playing and singing. Find his Dancing Cat recordings, made toward the end of his life (died in 1994).
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Mike Chillingworth is an awesome saxophonist. You should check him out. Originally Posted by joe2758
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