Jeff Berlin's thoughts on music education

[pamosmusic]

Every gigging musicians situation is different.

Sure.

Still this is all kind of beside the point of what I was talking about before RE Allan’s whole thing.

A lot of the time people who are taking another job are people who are making that choice to build the sort of career they want. Not making a choice out of desperation.

In general I also think way more of this business is relationships than people tend to think.

[Hep To The Jive]

In general I also think way more of this business is relationships than people tend to think.

It's all about relationships. Good advice from someone is never burn the bridges. A bass player on FB posted I'm done with 100$ gigs, I will not accept them anymore. And someone replied don't burn the bridges man, sometime you might need them. The bass player said well im just saying for myself, im not judging anyone, so the guy said if you declare publically it's kind of bruning a bridge with someone who might call you otherwise. Smarter thing would be just politley say thank you I'm booked already if they ask. It's a good point. The bass player is super good btw, I had a gig with him in the past.

[Christian Miller]

The call thing is not unusual. Go through the list and find someone. Rank by preference and how good they are at responding. Perfectly normal and how I’d do it if I were booking a lot of pick up gigs.

It’s a pain waiting for people to get back by text.

The problem is with so many scammers out there phoning at the moment they might not pick up on principle unless it’s a number they recognise, especially younger people. I suppose that’s them, but a text to the effect of ‘please get back if you are free and up for it, but be aware I’ve texted some others’ is not uncommon these days.

Different band leaders operate differently. But if it’s a function and you are free and the fee is standard or better, say yes immediately and work it out later of course! Why would you do it any other way? You’ll find some players if the fee is good.

No one rehearses for these sorts of gigs. You know how to play them or you don’t.

Re calling people - depends how far in advance I’m booking and for what. I’ll usually text and that’s how people usually contact me now unless they are older.

I do know one band leader who always seems to fix on the day before or the day itself. I’m far too much of a stress head for that sort of game.

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[Christian Miller]

It's all about relationships. Good advice from someone is never burn the bridges. A bass player on FB posted I'm done with 100$ gigs, I will not accept them anymore. And someone replied don't burn the bridges man, sometime you might need them. The bass player said well im just saying for myself, im not judging anyone, so the guy said if you declare publically it's kind of bruning a bridge with someone who might call you otherwise. Smarter thing would be just politley say thank you I'm booked already if they ask. It's a good point. The bass player is super good btw, I had a gig with him in the past.

Yeah I’ve burned a few bridges in my time by running my mouth lol.

Besides which if they haven’t played with someone before players might be more likely to call them for a low stakes bar gig before booking them for something better paid. Besides some of the worst paid gigs turn out to be the best musically haha.

Stuff like - are they a good hang, turn up on time etc

Anyway there’s a dictum that I’ve heard - in business, never give more information away than is strictly necessary


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[pamosmusic]

I’d also say as an independent contractor you have to set your own boundaries where you want them.

I turned down a gig this year on valentines day. It’s a place I play solo fairly regularly and it pays $350. He asked two days before. Technically I was available but I told him no. He also asked me day of to play on December 23. So he needs to know that that’s going to be a No.

Part of the reason I don’t want to be only gigging is so I can set that boundary. I was also able to turn down a corporate thing because I had a gig with my own trio that paid less and would be way more fun.

It’s good to be able to do that if that’s what you want to do.

[AllanAllen]

Anyway there’s a dictum that I’ve heard - in business, never give more information away than is strictly necessary

And how does one apply this dictum?

I was also able to turn down a corporate thing because I had a gig with my own trio that paid less and would be way more fun.

At this point, I would have subbed myself for my trio and taken the corporate gig to try and get my business card into the event planners hand. Show up early, dressed well, chit chat because it's not total chaos for them yet, 'oh by the way, I run a jazz band if you ever need one.'

[pamosmusic]

And how does one apply this dictum?



At this point, I would have subbed myself for my trio and taken the corporate gig to try and get my business card into the event planners hand. Show up early, dressed well, chit chat because it's not total chaos for them yet, 'oh by the way, I run a jazz band if you ever need one.'

And you would’ve lost the jazz gig. It’s easy to pose this stuff as simple.

[pamosmusic]

And we’re getting fairly far afield of telling teenagers not to go to music school, for whatever that’s worth.

[AllanAllen]

And we’re getting fairly far afield of telling teenagers not to go to music school, for whatever that’s worth.

I think that’s resolved. Music school teenagers shouldn't take advice from a never was in his 40s who lives in corn fields anyway.

[pamosmusic]

I think that’s resolved. Music school teenagers shouldn't take advice from a never was in his 40s who lives in corn fields anyway.

Except for the part about being in your 40s, that would describe me too, to be fair.

Well. Used to live in cornfields. And more cows than corn, but whatever.

[AllanAllen]

Except for the part about being in your 40s, that would describe me too, to be fair.

Well. Used to live in cornfields. And more cows than corn, but whatever.

But you actually finished the school part. I was a music major but pivoted to math.

[DawgBone]

And how does one apply this dictum?

Never let clubs, sidemen, or fans know your inmost thoughts. Never volunteer info, and a great long term policy is to never allow anyone but yourself to know what the club is paying the band. Certain owners might wind up paying you more than other groups, and the wrong musician might let a non band member know, at which point you generated a problem for the club manager/owner.

And....there is a time to burn bridges, it's just very very infrequently and not something done in a moment of anger but rather with a desired result in mind. Leaking the "right" info or inducing someone to do so by telling them that info can more often than not solve a lot of the problem, thus avoiding a total f u no f u bridge style torching. Always maintain composure. In the words of Albert Collins, "be cool".

[Christian Miller]

And how does one apply this dictum?

That one was left as an exercise to the student.

I see it as don’t volunteer unnecessary info. At best it’s unwanted and clutters up the signal and worse case you it could actively work against you.

I am very very bad at this lol.


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[rpjazzguitar]

I came to this thread late enough that the topic drift was complete.

As far as metronome practice goes, I have no argument with the conventional wisdom, but I have seen or felt some exceptions to the usual advice.

I played with a bassist who was religious about practicing with a metronome but who had terrible time. Perhaps the metronome was a crutch that he couldn't function without.

I've known several great player/teachers who regularly advise metronome use but who, in private, admit they've never done it. And, I know some masters who use the metronome regularly.

Classic jazz recordings vary 10% or so in tempo according to a drummer friend who timed a large number of them. Some musicians would call this a bug. I'm inclined to call it a feature, or, at least, acknowledge the possibility. Why wouldn't you vary the emotional impact of a jazz tune by varying, within reason, among many other things, the tempo?

I've heard many different recommendations for how to use the metronome. 1 and 3. 2 and 4. And-of-twelve, whatever. But, among the masters I've asked, the fanciest thing I heard was randomly dropping out a specified percentage of the clicks and getting into the 40-50% range. Timeguru is a free app that will do that. Of course, I haven't asked that many.

I use the metronome for keeping myself honest when I'm unsure about my time. So, for example, when I practice Donna Lee, I use it because I'm trying to build speed without fooling myself. I might do it on slower tunes, usually in situations where there's a technical struggle and I need some support in not dragging.

So I use it, but I'm not convinced that it has actually helped much.

The one thing that seems to help the most is being able to play the tune without coming anywhere close to the edge of my ability. If the tune seems easy enough that there's no physical or mental struggle, I don't need to worry about the time. It can take some work to get some tunes to seem easy. Sometimes, they never do (like my quest to play Donna Lee reliably at 220bpm) -- and I'm aware that's not terribly fast.